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#1185637 - 02/20/10 12:12 PM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: old fart]
old fart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Rocky -overtax- Hill, CT
Hey_ Look I didn't mean to sound angry with anyone of the contributors here. I'm not angry at you guys. We are on the same side on this issue. We probably AREN'T on the same side for the majority of other issues but on this one alone we are together. The fees should go back down. On that one and only point we can agree.

I think my frustration with the whole "rally, writing, and talking" campaign is that the town, local, state or federal government can only do one thing consistently. That one thing is to get bigger. Of course bigger means more power and more corruption and more waste. That is what governments do. Ours is great at it. In CT we have perfected it.

The most effective thing we can do is fight them with our wallets. Just don't pay. It is the most effective weapon we have to defend ourselves from the monster of our own creation.

And please don't believe a word these phony snake oil salesmen put out. You know who I mean_ the scum that we elected_ They only have one person they are looking out for and it ain't you.

The proponents of these fees say that CT pricing was out of line with inflation and other costs. It is a pretty strong argument because it is true. Our license fees were pretty low compared to much of the other things we buy. Proponents say the fee increases were overdue. Take a look at it. They may be right. Proponent say in this time of hardship sportsmen need to do their share. Maybe so..

Still I oppose the fee increase because I am already getting whacked for 55 cents on a dollar earned by every scum politician with a hand in my pocket. Really I don't disagree that hunting and fishing licenses here were a bargain but so what? Those crooks already spend far too much of my money. One little bargain doesn't off set the rest of what they do.

Just my opinion but best chance to turn this around is to make the proponents of the increased fees WRONG. Make the state income from the the fee increases NEGATIVE and the proponents will get very quiet. They won't change their minds but they will SHUT UP!. And that is a good thing. Once that voice is quiet you MIGHT get your fees lowered.

If you are really concerned about these fees being raised then you need to put some serious thought into changing the situation. The most serious effort you can contribute is to give up the very things you love and make the sacrifice to do without it in hope of reversing the trend. Don't buy any hunting or fishing licenses. I know, I know, that is a lot to ask of a bunch of guys "insanely sick" with enthusiasm about our mutual hobbies but I wish that more of us would consider being that radical. Sometimes it takes more than expressing an opinion to make something change. Sometimes it takes action. No matter how difficult that action might be.

-o.f.


Edited by old fart (02/20/10 01:37 PM)

"Let the people think they govern and they will be governed."
--William Penn
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#1185728 - 02/20/10 05:13 PM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Tony Mel]
Swifty Offline

aka.... "Bear Balls"

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 2918
Loc: Manchester, Ct.
Originally Posted By: Tony Mel
Originally Posted By: Swifty
Enough is enough........ if the state's deficate is as bad as they attest to doubling my fees for my driver's liscense, registration, my pistol permit, my hunting/fishing liscense, and all the hunting permits/tags I get and each and every one of you purchase wont make any difference. It's only a drop and a small one for that fact in the black bottomless bucket, ie the states budget and deficate.

Swifty, : beerchug great post. Please consider sending thsi PM it to the Hartford Courant as a letter to the editor. It will get published. If you do I will modify it and send it to the Courant a week after you do.
I suggest others, who are active in this fight either copy and paste it and/or personalize it and send to the editors of their local papers.

Some comments:
1."each and every one of you purchase wont make any difference"—

One of the powerful points in this forum is stated in ZYG's flyer under thread #9. The essence of the argument is that the fees increase will cause an over all decrease in state revenue that will dwarf an increase fee revenue. If any one is not familiar with the argument please read the flyer and/or the email rendition in thread #6, under Mitche,s avatar.

Originally Posted By: Swifty


1) Reduce the amount of benefits those on Welfare receive each time they have another child instead of giving them more moneys.

(3) Eliminate all the state funded halfway houses. If you do the crime you should expect to do the time if caught. and that means all the time not a portion of your sentence.


Re #1. I thought of this, but didn't have the b-lls to post it. beerchug)to you again

Re#3. Unfortunately, halfway house exists, because it cost more money to keep criminals in jail.

Hopefully, others will post their suggest for raising state revenue and or cutting expenses.





Tony, feel free to send it to the Courant, And that goes for everybody else!

PLEASE!.....THE ONLY THING I MUST INSIST UPON IS THAT YOU ONLY USE MY SCREEN !
THIS IS IMPERATIVE GUYS.... DO NOT GIVE OUT MY FIRST AND LAST NAME!

USE MY ALIAS.... A.K.A " BEAR BALLS" IS BETTER

MY CAREER COULD BE COMPROMISED IF YOU GIVE MY NAME AND IT'S PUBLISHED.
IT'S TOO DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN AND I SHOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT IT AS IT IS....... PLEASE!


Edited by Swifty (02/20/10 05:15 PM)



-mike-

See my pics; http://www.ctfisherman.com/cgi-bin/photopost/index.pl?cat=500&thumb=1&stype=2&si=m306139

Homepage; http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/304180/1






"It's not the numbers caught or the tags filled, but the number of opportunities that we've pass up on or released that defines us, these experiences teach us more than any book or guide ever could and is guaranteed to bring you back for more" -swifty-
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#1185752 - 02/20/10 06:13 PM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Swifty]
Swifty Offline

aka.... "Bear Balls"

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 2918
Loc: Manchester, Ct.
Ole fart I like your reasoning but I know many are like myself and live to hunt or fish. I'll be purchasing my combo liscense very soon and the various hunting permits but limiting the ones I purchase this year.

I cherish the time I am able to escape the insanity of my professional responsibilities and do things that I want to do!

I'll just have to limit what, when ,and where I do my thing.





Edited by Swifty (02/20/10 06:30 PM)



-mike-

See my pics; http://www.ctfisherman.com/cgi-bin/photopost/index.pl?cat=500&thumb=1&stype=2&si=m306139

Homepage; http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/304180/1






"It's not the numbers caught or the tags filled, but the number of opportunities that we've pass up on or released that defines us, these experiences teach us more than any book or guide ever could and is guaranteed to bring you back for more" -swifty-
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#1185875 - 02/21/10 09:45 AM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Swifty]
old fart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Rocky -overtax- Hill, CT
Me too Swifty. Me too. Hunting and fishing are what I do. It is perfectly normal for me to be on a stream or on the river at 4 am and off to work at 7:30. Then a couple of stops on the way home maybe for a shad or trout somewhere. Or you might find me in a tree stand at 4:40pm after work is done at 4:30. Follow that up spending all weekend on the boat chasing the birds or bottom bouncing for fluke or blacks or porgy.

So the question here is how outraged and angry are you? Not getting a license is a very, very difficult concept for a lot of people. Believe me. I know.

What it really comes down to is this:
- If you really believe in your heart of hearts that CT is spiraling out of control with wasteful irresponsible spending_
- If you are disgusted by the INSANE measures the progressive minded morons are deploying to prop up their failing political ideology_
- If when you heard about the 3X increase on a new marine license before the ink was dry on the first one you said, "This is the last straw!"
- If it is finally being to dawn on you that the state can not manage even the most mundane thing responsibly and efficiently. And no matter how much they steal from you today
IT WILL BE MORE TOMORROW!

If you are a avid outdoor sportsperson in this state and you want to preserve hunting and fishing or camping or whatever for the future then maybe, just maybe it is time for a radial response beyond writing a letter or going to a rally.

I want my children and grandchildren to have SOMEthing left in this country but the way these "redistribute the wealth" people are destroying everything in their path it doesn't look like there will be a whole lot left. This is a ultra-blue blue state and the "progressive" mindset of tax, tax, tax, spend, spend spend, make government bigger and bigger and bigger is VERY popular here. From single welfare moms living in hotels and dinning out every night to the soccer moms (and dads) wringing their hands (in guilt) about social injustice this is the home of “tax your way out of every problem” politics.
I don’t know about you but I have had more than enough of this crap_ Time to take a stand.

btw_
Just because you don’t get a license doesn’t mean you can’t fish. Hire a charter, go on a party boat. I think there are a couple of private hunting preserves around here that don’t require a state hunting license. There are ways to get around not buying a license. It will cost PLENTY_ but_ how much is it really worth to put a stop to these dirty-bags at the capital? How much is it worth? Please ask yourself_ how much is it worth to put a stop to these tax junkies? If you are okay with the fee increases and you agree they were overdue anyway and now they are inline with what other states are doing then forget about it. Write your letter, go to the rally, listen to lies and false promises the local politicians throw out for suckers to believe and just pay the new fees. The result will be even higher fees next year. Hey_ it all depends on how much that hunting and fishing really means to you. It means a lot to me and that is why_ I JUST WON’T PAY_

"Let the people think they govern and they will be governed."
--William Penn
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#1185881 - 02/21/10 10:16 AM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Jighead]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2076
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: Jighead
Walt,

With that in mind, I think you will continue to see significant reductions in state services as more cuts are made, and there will continue to be some increases in taxes and licenses considered. I wish we were not in this position, but I think we will continue to have to make these kind of decisions until there is clear evidence that these various budget problems are behind it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I do think there is some light at the end of the tunnel. In the meantime, I wanted to assure you that you and other sportsmen are not being singled out.

Mike Lawlor


Walt your reps response, brings to focus that we are missing an opportunity when our letters and emails do not include either ZYG's flyer in the thread below or at least the same argument in prose under SAC thread #6.

The argument is clear: Fee Increase Negatively Impacts State Revenue. The argument makes the point that a fee decrease serves to help the states financial crisis- the old, what’s in for me”.

I am curious as to Lawlor’s response to that argument.

http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubbthreads/ub...lye#Post1176412


Edited by Tony Mel (02/21/10 10:17 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1185919 - 02/21/10 01:07 PM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: old fart]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2076
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: old fart
Not getting a license is a very, very difficult concept for a lot of people. Believe me. I know.


Note buying a license is one hell of a sacrifice, but is it effective? To the extreme, if everyone did not buy a license, might our message be to cut back on DEP and conservation programs, and further curtail any public programs that support our sport, because the public is voting with $s and states we have no interest in these activities.

Not buying a license plays into the hands of PETA and other people that oppose our sports.

Successful political initiative in our country, with in the political system, will get things done. The problem is the average sportsmen will not take 15 mins out of their yearly 50,000+ mins spent in their sport to fight for their interest.

And those that advocate it is foolish to get involve, set all our interest back.

The people and organizations that organize people, rule in this country. Our government is far from perfect and its legislation is not perfect, but our government is the best government that western or eastern civilization has produced since hunters crawled out of caves.

At least we have public lands, others do not. Don't take those public boat launches for granted, with out the government, NY money would have closed access to our waters long ago.

At least we have a public voice, others do not. Those that are concerned that our proposed rally will cost them a days pay, consider it might cost you your life in other countries.

At least we are governed by laws and others are ruled by a few.

We, the people, elect our government officials and we influence public policy. Unfortunately, the WE are the relatively few people that fund the political process with $, or influence the political process with their vote and/or give their time to influence the government. Influential $s aside, every vote counts as one vote and many voices can do battle with $s.

I am sure the following statement does not apply to all sportsmen, but I'll bet my new downriggers that the majority of those who bitch about public policy in this state do not study their reps political stance on issues and worst do not vote. Furthermore, when there is an organized political initiative fighting to influence government actions, such as SAC, the majority of sportsmen will not contribute 15 mins to protect their sport's interest.. Who is stupid?

I am an advocate that sportsmen delay buying a license until it will be used and/or cutting back on non-essential licenses. Moderate actions such as delaying license, rallies and letter-writing coupled with insiders influence will get this done, but the initiative needs a large number of voices presenting intelligent/respectful arguments in order for sportsmen to succeed.

Consider that a bitch or protest in silence is empty. Consider that messages agiantst an orgainized initiative, helps the oppostion. Believe one voice can make a difference with in an organized initiative. Know that for an organized initiative to be successul individual voices need to contribute to one LOUD PROTEST.


Edited by Tony Mel (02/23/10 12:39 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1186425 - 02/22/10 08:29 PM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Tony Mel]
Swifty Offline

aka.... "Bear Balls"

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 2918
Loc: Manchester, Ct.
How much funding does the State of Connecticut receive from the Federal Government in the support of open lands and wet lands preservation?

How much funding does the State of Connecticut receive from the Federal Government for the restoration of wildlife and to support the protection of endanger species?

How much funding does the State of Connecticut receive from the Federal Government to support clean water acts and the restoration of aquatic species to our waters?

I don't know... that's why I'm asking...

Over the past decades how much federal funding for the preotection of wildlife and the re-introduction efforts has the state received for the various specie's of wildlife we currently have an abundace of?

Many private organizations such as Ducks Unlimited, the Turkey Federation, BASS, and many others I'm sure have made substancial contributions to the state,never mind the local organizations and clubs within Connecticuts boarders.

How much of the Federal Duck Stamp revenue's filter back to Connecticut? not to mention the newer State Duck Stamp revenue's?

Maybe a National organization in support of Hunting and Fishing and the preservation of the wild outdoors for sportsmans could bring this to the National spotlight?

The story of that lady who would not allow that Bow hunter to retreive the Deer out of here back yard made national headlines... and sparked controversy across the entire country...


I don't know... I'm just discouraged with the direction and the continued reduction of programs that effect you, me and the young upcomming sportsmans of our state.



-mike-

See my pics; http://www.ctfisherman.com/cgi-bin/photopost/index.pl?cat=500&thumb=1&stype=2&si=m306139

Homepage; http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/304180/1






"It's not the numbers caught or the tags filled, but the number of opportunities that we've pass up on or released that defines us, these experiences teach us more than any book or guide ever could and is guaranteed to bring you back for more" -swifty-
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#1186475 - 02/23/10 01:53 AM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: Swifty]
old fart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Rocky -overtax- Hill, CT
Oh a lot of points to cover. How can I not respond? If the moderators don’t clip this one I will be very surprised.

Re: is it effective?

A significant drop in revenue in response to an unrealistic increase in fees will not be perceived as a loss of public interest. To the contrary. It will be perceived as a public protest. Especially if we point that out to them in no uncertain terms.

Re: fire and self mutilation

Sometimes a man has to answer the call to give a little of what he values. Sacrifice is not equivalent to self mutilation and it is not in vain.

BTW_ interesting thought on that problem you mentioned. If sportsmen are not responding to your protest perhaps it really was time to increase the fees? As a group maybe they really don’t mind that much. In that case next years increase should be okay too.

Re: set back

I’m not sure who is setting you back. I’m not. If anything I am suggesting raising one of the goals a little.

Re: organizations rule

Organizations that organize_ is that like unions or acorn or aarp? I’m sure glad we have all these organizations. How else would some of us get a break on our health care bill because of where we work?
Our government is the best when the power is not in the hands of a few like it has been for too many years. Hey, did ya notice I’m not a republican or a democrat? Power over government from dues or selling heath care supplement insurance is not government by the people.

Re: public public

We sure seem to have a lot of "public" stuff. More than some other countries I guess. But ah... "public"? That means owned by the government, right? Ya see that is where we might part company. I really don’t see where the government should be in the business of building boat launches or owning 260K acres of the land in a state as populated as CT. I guess that is just a role I see private groups or people playing a bigger part in. Lotsa folks don’t like that position around here. The response is always the same- “we can’t do it without getting someone else to pay for it” – Well.. That isn’t exactly what “they” say but that is what it amounts to. (“they” are supporters of “public stuff”)

Re: freedom of speech and it’s cost

Wow_ drama_ A day’s pay vs. death for the cause of freedom of speech? Sort of grandiose to suggest there is some moral equivalence here. Actually a day’s pay is probably a lot easier to take than what I am suggesting. I guess the numbers will tell us. I pray your rally is packed and the state license revenue is down. Basically I’m trying to stay on your side here. We do have the same goal. Please rally-ho!

Re: governed by laws

Ah_ it is sort of a blur to me at the moment. Ruling is like when you do something the majority of the people don’t want but because you are a “ruler” and you can do it anyway? Seems so familiar somehow.

We join together for your final comments. I too would advocate waiting to the last possible moment to purchase a license if that is what you are going to do. Seems to me like we have the same goal here but just at a different levels. The goal being to hold back some revenue from the state AND make them aware of why we are doing it. All I’m saying is to take it as far as you are able. If you can afford it and it suits you to not buy any license and hire charters for your season then do it. This is a good year to do it. It really isn’t clear to me why lashing out with statements mocking or belittling with bazaar references to monks was appropriate. If I didn’t recognize your passion on the issue I would be inclined to take that stuff personally. We might both want to keep that sort of stuff to a minimum.

And please, by all means, make a noise. I certainly do. No problem with that my friend. Noise is good. As you say silence does nothing.

Peace,
-of

"Let the people think they govern and they will be governed."
--William Penn
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#1186476 - 02/23/10 01:59 AM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: old fart]
old fart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Rocky -overtax- Hill, CT
Swifty I missed the point of what you were saying. You said the state gets tax money for stuff that support sportsmen six times and then that the state gets private contributions for the same once. With all that ya have to wonder why they needed this extra money from us. But isn’t that the point? The money they want in our fees has nothing to do with things that interest sportsmen. The money goes to the general budget. Isn’t that one of the problems with this whole thing? Anyway I don’t think I understand what you were saying.


Edited by old fart (02/23/10 01:59 AM)

"Let the people think they govern and they will be governed."
--William Penn
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#1186527 - 02/23/10 09:37 AM Re: 7. Legislator’s Replies and Your Commentary & Discussion Thread [Re: old fart]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 2980
Report from the LOB.

I was at the Environment Committee hearing yesterday, on another issue. However, for the second time, I got to talk to each of the co-chairs of the Environment Comm. and they are both behind any language to reduce fishing fees.

BUT

The tricky part will be surviving the crazy 11th hour budget slashing that will need to occur. That is going to be an ugly mess the last two weeks of April and the First week of May.

IMO - keep or amplify the focus on the loss of revenue to the state.

I fear that despite popular support, the fishing fees language, will get packaged with other fee rollbacks and all of those will get slashed at the 11th hour.

In the final hours of the session, if this is viewed as a way to increase state income - it has a chance.

DEP introduced their legislative package yesterday. Among other things, they testified to the potential loss of significant federal funding because of the shift of their conservation funds into the general fund.

The politics of that issue bears watching closely. As the bills get packaged nearer the end of the session, and if the return of these funds to DEP seems likely, perhaps that becomes the better package for the fee rollback to be a part of.

The good news is that the pressure is working - keep it up !


Edited by swwind (02/23/10 10:34 AM)

k4 - US Patent No: US D588,518 S
"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming
Team Man Made Climate Change is real.

John Huntsman December 2011 . . . . . "When we take a position that basically runs counter to what 98 out of 100 climate scientists from what the National Academy of Scientists said on what is causing climate change, and man’s contribution to it, I think we find ourselves on the wrong side of science"
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