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#1319861 - 05/25/11 09:00 PM 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
I am starting a new thread for this initiative. I’d like this to be a working thread, so, please read the following, : A. Rough draft email proposal that DEP discussed today, May 25th B. DEP responsiveness and support C. Next steps shared by Bill Hyatt, DEP Bureau Chief D. What you can do!


A. Rough Draft CT Proposal:

Up to 4-rods maybe used by licensed fisherman, providing each rod is labeled with the fisherman’s name and address and is under the fisherman’s immediate control. (similar to ice fishing). No shoreline fisherman can occupy more than 5-feet of shoreline per rod.

B. The responsiveness and support from the DEP has been astounding. On Bob Crooks suggestion (and his support), I placed a call to Bill Hyatt, Bureau Chief yesterday and I got a call from a DEP Deputy and fellow CTFer, Bill Gerrish, today. BillG called for background information and told me he would be discussing the proposal with Hyatt and Director Arrestad. BillG’s call was at 2 PM and and Hyatt called me at 4 PM.

C. Hyatt said that a 2-rod limit was a convention and in their meeting could foresee no obstacles to a reg change. However, as part of the process the DEP presents a reg change to the FAC (Fishing Advisory Council) for commentary. The FAC is comprised of leaders from various fishing organizations. ( As I recall Mitch P is a member of the FAC). The FAC meets in June.

D.

#21 Please, express your support for a “4 ROD REG CHANGE” in this thread and ask your fishing buddies to consider the reg change merits and post their support either for their interest or for the interest of their fellow sportsmen.

#2. This thread could serve as a sounding board for the FAC's consideration. Please express your opposition to a reg change and provide a heplful reason, because a "4-rod" reg change should be a win-win and not imperil the experience of other fisherman.

To date I have elcaptainas, pistol, vince s and mike g. I know that there are many trollers, carp and cat fisherman and bank fisherman who will enhance their fishing experience by having an option to fish with 4-rods. I will keep a running list of supporters in this thread.


Please use this thread for constructive input.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/24/11 09:31 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1319862 - 05/25/11 09:00 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
4-Rod Reg Change Supporters:

1.elcaptainmas
2.pistol
3. vince s
4. mike g.
5. fishingbum
6. Wilderness_dave
7. KillTaker
8. firehawk
9. skytrapper
10.Blaine
11.Fishfinger
12.Tony Mel
13.orviskid
14.Jack
15.JimFish
16.Rocketman
17.OBASS
18.FishnTechnician
19. Steve76
20. Trout Tracker
21. know doubt
22. Doug S
23. SaxMatt
24. Jerome
25. MisterMeaner
26. BRShuntfish
27.
28.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/21/11 04:55 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1319958 - 05/26/11 08:43 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Carrying over a constructive post from "3rd rod" thread:

Originally Posted By: edaves
I fish several places best described as community holes, The last thing those places need is anglers allowed more than 2 rods


Seems like a reasonable concern. What are the names and/or type of ponds/lakes that you are fishing that are cause for concern. Acreage? Bank? Small access points?

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1319995 - 05/26/11 09:57 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
I am all for this this proposal. It will open many new types of angling opportunity for us here in CT.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1319998 - 05/26/11 10:11 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Wilderness_dave Offline

Member

Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 976
Quote:
I am all for this this proposal. It will open many new types of angling opportunity for us here in CT.


what he said...I'm onboard.
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#1320007 - 05/26/11 10:32 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
edaves Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 660
Tony, One place that would be hurt by anglers using more than 2 rods is Brown Park in Norwich. Anglers fish off the dock and at times even using 2 rods cause issues. Several times in the past anglers fishing that spot don't how to play well with others have caused problems, twice I've made calls to DEP tip line because tempers were flaring and to appease those who wanted to take the law into their own hands.
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#1320053 - 05/26/11 12:21 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: edaves]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: edaves
Tony, One place that would be hurt by anglers using more than 2 rods is Brown Park in Norwich. Anglers fish off the dock and at times even using 2 rods cause issues. Several times in the past anglers fishing that spot don't how to play well with others have caused problems, twice I've made calls to DEP tip line because tempers were flaring and to appease those who wanted to take the law into their own hands.


Thanks for response. How would you propose modifying the reg change and still serve the interest of carp fisherman and trollers?

Is the dock you are referring to salt water. Is it locally or state controlled?

If we restricted the number of rods by size of water and/or access points, do you have a suggestion as to wordsmithing.

Thanks in advance


Edited by Tony Mel (06/05/11 08:27 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1320084 - 05/26/11 02:51 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Following is copied from another thread.

Originally Posted By: poolpaul
to start off with you wanna start it at $5 so the state will start it at $8...... 4 rods you just doudled your chances of hooking a fish in a way that would kill it ....... with more rods on the shoreline say like at squantz every day / nihgt of fishing would be like a kids fishing derby ....#4 lets talk safty here more rods trolling ..... i dont think there is a safe way to operate a boat and more than 2 rods safely (and lets face it CT has had more than its share of boating accidents with out you wanting more rods)JUST MY 2 CENTS



Originally Posted By: firehawk
LOL

You are missing the point that when 1 person is in a boat he can only use 2 rods - I want to use 3 or 4 when I am fishing alone.

And to tell you the truth - since it's optional I don't care if they want to charge me dbl my current license to run dbl the poles.

When trolling in a boat a 4 pole spread increases the effectiveness of the troll enough where I would pay it. Considering the amount of money I already have invested in the sport.

I don't understand the negative reasonings...

1. if need by restrict to trolling
2. price - who cares, the ones who want to pay will the others won't


poolpaul and firehawk, I appreciate your input.

This is an old thread. The discussion should be on the thread pertaining to the DEP discussion, "4-rod" option. I'll be moving your input over to the current thread with my following commentary.


First there is no issue re fees being raised or rod stamps. A reg change is done by the DEP and fees are controlled by the legislature. Ranting about the state taking our money is just ranting in this instance. To be clear, the state does have the "people's power" to raise taxes and fees, but our little reg change proposal will not even make a spec of dust on the revenue raising radar screen, and would cost more to implement than the revenue it would generate. Put the "Big Brother" paranoia to rest.

We need more input from bank fisherman. If over crowding on our fresh water shores is a major issue for crowd control and safety then firehawks suggestion of restricting the option to trolling has merit. For those that understand trolling at 1,2,3 miles/hour, one person can handle 4-rods with ease and safety.

However, there is a group of "non-meat" sportsman fisherman who would be harmed by not having an option to fish with more than 2-rods. They demonstrate high sportsmanship values and regard for their prey. They are the carp fisherman. We need to hear from them on this thread, before we focus the 4-rod initiative on trollers only.


Edited by Tony Mel (05/26/11 03:45 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1320091 - 05/26/11 03:28 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
We also really need the support of local tackle shops as well . Twice as many rods will mean twice as much bait ,tackle and other equipment for us to purchase from them.So it would be a great thing for them.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1320095 - 05/26/11 04:21 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
KillTaker Offline

FUJH GSABFD DYKWIM

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1884
Loc: Southbury, CT
Tony,

First off, I am an all-water, all-types fisherman. I think the proposal to increase the allowable rods from 2 to 4 is awesome.

I will say that I vehemently disagree with the stipulation that the rods must be labeled. I do not want to add anything to my rod/rods that is not already there. I think this is different than ice-fishing, in that you will be right on top manning all your rods at all times. In ice-fishing there can be a number of fisherman intermixed, and it makes sense to identify the tip-ups. Also, I take a lot of friends out and go out on a lot of other friends' boats. I don't want to relabel crap every time we change something or someone up. Just more bureaucratic restrictions.


In addition (I understand it is not currently written into the proposal), I do NOT support in any way a proposal that has a fee attached to it.


I do appreciate you work in this initiative.

Thanks
KT
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#1320351 - 05/27/11 04:19 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
spytrapper Offline

Member

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 9
Please add me to the list of supporters for a 3 or 4 rod proposal!
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#1320352 - 05/27/11 04:29 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
spytrapper Offline

Member

Registered: 09/04/05
Posts: 9
My interest is for bank side carp fishing so the 'trolling only' option would not have my support.

Hopefully folk will use common sense in how and where to use extra rods (and this could be more than one in some cases!). I don't see over crowding be an issue on most of the waters I fish. A regulation that limits the bank space that 4 rods can occupy would make sense and ensure the angler is close by to have proper control of them.

'Labeling' rods with your name and address seems rather pointless...
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#1320490 - 05/28/11 08:25 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
We need to also get word out off of CTF. We need the local tackle shops involved.Maybe even try to get the support of Cabelas ?

Can you create a Facebook page for this proposal Tony,I know many of my angler friends have shied away from CTF and other fishing sites.Allot of us share reports and info on FB now.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1320492 - 05/28/11 08:30 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Blaine Offline

Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 14936
Finally had a chance to catch up with current events here... I've been in favor of this since talk began over a year ago. CTO as a shop would have no problem getting behind this. Thanks Tony!

Anderson Guide Services
Anderson Guide Services YouTube Channel
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Team Daiwa


Connecticut Outfitters
www.ct-outfitters.com
512 Silas Deane HWY
Wethersfield, CT 06109
860-571-8986


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#1320523 - 05/28/11 10:18 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Mike G]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: Mike G
We need to also get word out off of CTF. We need the local tackle shops involved.Maybe even try to get the support of Cabelas ?

Can you create a Facebook page for this proposal Tony,I know many of my angler friends have shied away from CTF and other fishing sites.Allot of us share reports and info on FB now.



Mike, to be successful this effort can not be a one-man-show. I agree we need to reach out to others. Face Book could work if comments will be directed to this thread. But, I am old school, I suggest each CTF supporter pick up the phone and ask a Bud to read the thread and express an opinion; nothing works better than an individual's initiative to make a call or send a PM.

As Blaine points out this issue has been on the board for a year and now we are down to the last few weeks before the FAC gives a decision. Each supporter and/or non-supporter simply needs to call a Bud and direct them to the thread.

Particularly, we need more input from bank fisherman and carp fisherman, because from my experience the interest in "4-rod" and good sportsman-like behavior is demonstrated by trollers. However, the issues raised on this thread concerning crowded shoreline space, un-sportsman like behavior and safety on CT's shoreline fishing requires thoughtful-constructive input from experienced fisherman. In the absence of that input it maybe prudent to request "4-rods" for trollers only as a "toe-in-the-water" experiment.

Bottomline is that we need broad, constructive and responsible input

Thanks for your help Mike, we could use a bunch more taking the initiative like you have done..


Edited by Tony Mel (05/28/11 12:18 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1320548 - 05/28/11 11:46 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Fishfinger Offline

Member

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 218
I'll support a 3-4 rod proposal.
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#1320726 - 05/29/11 08:32 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
orviskid Offline

Member

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 1508
i troll, although i can't see myself going with 4 rods.I think it would be a detriment to other species. people on shore will be using more rods and taking even more fish that are short or illegal. with trout you can only take 5 anyway, so you have to stop. I say this is a boater reg only.theres enough stuff going on now from shore, lets not make it worse.i'm for it, just trollers only.
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#1320732 - 05/29/11 09:00 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Mike G]
Mitch P. Offline



Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 22484
Originally Posted By: Mike G
Allot of us share reports and info on FB now.


Now I know you've really gone soft.
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#1320801 - 05/29/11 07:00 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Mitch P.]
jimfish Offline

Geezer

Registered: 10/13/03
Posts: 4598
I don't troll. But I will support what you are doing.

My name is Jim. You can call me slim. I row my boat way out to the middle.Cause the fish I'm after ain't so little. Pike, Trout, Largemouth Bass. Get me out there really fast. I know I'm good,really the best. The rest of you are such a pest. - By Henry Gibson
Jim Boyne

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#1320847 - 05/29/11 09:58 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Jack Offline

Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 4751
I troll and fish for carp on the banks. I defintitely agree that a person with some trolling knowledge can control four rods. Hell I bought my wife a license so that I could troll four rods. I have run 6 and even 8 rods when doing some charters. As far as carp fishing it would be great to have an option to run more rods. I don't think i would ever fish four rods but I would fish three probably every time out. Count me as in favor of the rule change but I would like to see it for both boat and bank fisherman. I personally don't see it happening if it only applies to boat fisherman.


Edited by Jack (05/29/11 10:01 PM)

Addicted to Kings!!! See you up in Lake O.

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#1320850 - 05/29/11 10:24 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
KillTaker Offline

FUJH GSABFD DYKWIM

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1884
Loc: Southbury, CT
Again, I 100% support an increase in allowed rods used, whether it is 3 or 4. As previously stated, I do not agree with additional rods needing to be labeled. I do not agree with the possibility of an additional fee structure. And, I do not agree with discriminating based on the type of fishing you are doing. This needs to be an all or nothing initiative. If it is a blanket increase to 4 rods, no strings attached, then I 100% support.
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#1320858 - 05/29/11 11:19 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: KillTaker]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: KillTaker
And, I do not agree with discriminating based on the type of fishing you are doing. This needs to be an all or nothing initiative. If it is a blanket increase to 4 rods, no strings attached, then I 100% support.


We need constructive input from experienced bank fisherman that addresses the over-crowded and safety issues points raised by edaves and poolpaul's post above. The issue is not one of discrimination against a mode of fishing. The issue is allegations of crowed shorelines, the potential for increased unsportsmanship like conduct and safety on those shorelines. Simply put would a "4-rods" option for bank fishing cause more problems than benefits and if so, what kind of wording in a proposal would remove those problems. We need rational input from sportsman-minded bank fisherman. If anyone is more comfortable discussing input and options off-line, PM me and I will help with the wording.

Originally Posted By: Jack
I troll ... I defintitely agree that a person with some trolling knowledge can control four rods. ... I have run 6 and even 8 rods when doing some charters. .


Experienced trollers would agree that there are no safety and/or overcrowding issues with trolling 4-rods spreads. 4-lines would cover the same area laterally and vertically in the water column as two lines would, but with 4-rods the experimentation to find fish is more intense and exciting.

The worst that would happen to an inexperienced troller trolling 4-rods is tangles/twisting lines in the spreads which is a similar frustration to that of a bait-casting back-lash. Both skills take a bit of practice and the rewards are a better fishing experience.


Edited by Tony Mel (05/30/11 08:33 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1321259 - 05/31/11 08:42 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Rocketman Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 1435
Loc: Suffield
I would be all for it with one exception. Bank fishing from the shore of a moving body (river, stream) of water. If someone has 4 rods at 5 feet apart and the lines at a bunch of different angles, there's no way I can fish with lures in that stretch of water, Some areas the access spots are pretty limited and 2 guys with a total of 8 rods can make the place unfishable for anyone else.

Trolling, yes...shore fishing, not so good


Edited by Rocketman (05/31/11 08:44 AM)

In the beginning there was nothing. Even that exploded.
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#1321383 - 05/31/11 01:20 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
O-BASS Offline

Time to find out...

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 8101
IM IN FOR IT. anything that allows more freedom for the naglers without additional fees or taxation is good in my book.

O'

" A good man does the right thing when no one is looking..."

" Life has a way of quickly getting down to the last 2-hours of an eight hour fishing day..." T. Melito

"Bass and fisherman tug on opposite ends of the line, and yet on a ninety-nine and nine tenths perfect September afternoon like this one, they end up striving toward the same kind rebellious freedom, racing to see who gets there first."
W.D. Wetherell

2012 CTF "fished with these members" list: Joeyartifact, RiverJosh, tommy, Joe Sabas the Fishin Magician, genobrew, Frank, KnowDoubt, Stingray, Me Fisherman, anglerman, Shep Sr., This Side Up, Edinct, Buck


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#1321391 - 05/31/11 01:39 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
FishnTechnician Offline

Member

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 1579
I had no idea there was a law limiting the number of fishing rods used. Another stupid law I didn't know about. Damm I'm ignorent. I would support repealing it, but no need to put a number (4) on it. Just repeal it. Just another way to put a limit on your freedom.

...Frank...Born to Fish smile1 Forced to Work frown
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#1321501 - 05/31/11 06:50 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
steve76 Offline

Member

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 1643
Loc: Higganum
I support the effort, for both trolling and bank fishing.

I fish, therefore I smell

Quit crying. Do something. Join the RFA www.joinrfa.org
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#1321519 - 05/31/11 07:52 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
trout tracker Offline

RIP GreenGlo Bob

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 3437
Loc: Terryville
I fully support the 4 pole proposal. I would love to start stacking the downrigger next trip out.
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#1321769 - 06/01/11 12:53 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
O-BASS Offline

Time to find out...

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 8101
seems like a great thing for trout and carp fisherman in the state. no additional moneys alloted makes it that much sweeter.

" A good man does the right thing when no one is looking..."

" Life has a way of quickly getting down to the last 2-hours of an eight hour fishing day..." T. Melito

"Bass and fisherman tug on opposite ends of the line, and yet on a ninety-nine and nine tenths perfect September afternoon like this one, they end up striving toward the same kind rebellious freedom, racing to see who gets there first."
W.D. Wetherell

2012 CTF "fished with these members" list: Joeyartifact, RiverJosh, tommy, Joe Sabas the Fishin Magician, genobrew, Frank, KnowDoubt, Stingray, Me Fisherman, anglerman, Shep Sr., This Side Up, Edinct, Buck


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#1321866 - 06/01/11 03:30 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: O-BASS]
Jack Offline

Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 4751
Quote:
Experienced trollers would agree that there are no safety and/or overcrowding issues with trolling 4-rods spreads. 4-lines would cover the same area laterally and vertically in the water column as two lines would, but with 4-rods the experimentation to find fish is more intense and exciting.


I guess you are unfamiliar with planer boards. Beleive me I can cover alot more laterally if you give me the four rod option.

Just one question. Are we better off just going for an increase to three rods instead of four? It just seems that much harder to pass something that would double the allowable rod amount. Aren't most states either two or three?

Addicted to Kings!!! See you up in Lake O.

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#1321872 - 06/01/11 03:36 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
3 is good 4 way better !!!!! With the types of trolling techs I use 4 is the best bet.

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1321931 - 06/01/11 04:41 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Jack]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: Jack
[quote]I guess you are unfamiliar with planer boards. Beleive me I can cover alot more laterally if you give me the four rod option.

It just seems that much harder to pass something that would double the allowable rod amount. Aren't most states either two or three?


Hard to tell from your post as to whether you want this reg reg change or just want to play "show and tell". From my research, most states do not have a restriction on number of rods. I agree with pistol, 4-rods is an efficient, skilled and exciting way to figure out the puzzle and find fish.

Planners boards can cover a wide swath with 2- rods, but to figure out the puzzle would take longer and multiple passes. 2 to 4 rods in trolling is just not an issue as far as overcrowding and safety and is well on the a path to getting done as will be evident in my next post.

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1321944 - 06/01/11 04:56 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Peter Aarrestad, Director DEP Inland Fisheries, and I teleconferenced today on this proposal. He is very supportive of a 4-rod reg change. Currently, the DEP's protocol is to get feedback from the FAC that will meet next week. The 4-rod proposal will be on the FAC agenda. The next probable step is that I or some other person supporting this proposal will be invited to come before the FAC's September meeting.

Aarrestad was optimistic and especially pointed out as to how a 4-rod option would benefit the fishing experiencing of trollers, carp and cat fisherman. His early opinion is to keep it simple and pass a 4-rod option for all and tweak issues as they develop.

He let me know that the constructive opinions, input and support for this proposal are being read by the DEP.

Thanks to a supportive DEP and CTFers who have taken the time to post.



Edited by Tony Mel (06/03/11 08:20 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1321986 - 06/01/11 06:56 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Know Doubt Offline

Member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1398
I am pro four rods with no fees. We have taxation on the income we make, the gas we buy to drive to the lake/ river, the property tax on the vehicle we drive, costs and sales tax to the bait/ tackle shop to purchase the bait and the four rods. All of this is very supportive of a very tenuous economy. If some smaller bodies of water need a little tweeking, I am sure that can be worked out.
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#1322027 - 06/01/11 08:21 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
MyGirl Offline

Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1906
Like the Declaration of Independence States, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, it should be considered as an option (unless it proves to be too effective and a hazard to the resource).
Like others have said, the biggest objection to an across the board approval is that those using four rods would restrict the availability of shoreline to others. This would be true at places like the DEP Hdqtrs in Old Lyme, Baldwin Bridge, Saybrook Point, New London piers, etc. It would also create problems on opening day, on both streams and ponds. While it may be a very good solution for some types of fishing, it should not be considered as an across the board practice for either fresh or salt water fisherman.
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#1322038 - 06/01/11 08:37 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: MyGirl]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Thanks for the constructive input My Girl, we need more from all sides of the issue.

Constructive, factual input from a broad base of fisherman will help get the reg change "right".



Edited by Tony Mel (06/01/11 09:42 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1322058 - 06/01/11 09:13 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Jack Offline

Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 4751
Tony I am sorry if I came across arrogant or cocky that was not my intention. I totally appreicate your work on this. As mentioned before being a trolling maniac I understand the advantage in being able to run four rods when I am by myself. And ofcourse I am totally for this change. I been talking about this change with Ethan for a while now. I understand that this is not a monetary push but I personally would pay if it did require a rod stamp.

Also with my carp experiences having the option for one or two more rods would be great. The places I have fished for carp don't seem to have the bank space issue that people have mentioned. And most experienced carp fisherman that are going to be running more than two rods have the alarms to run more rods and most have the ediquette to understand the bank space issue.

Addicted to Kings!!! See you up in Lake O.

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#1322075 - 06/01/11 09:39 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Jack]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: Jack
Tony I am sorry if I came across arrogant or cocky that was not my intention. I totally appreicate your work on this.


In a charged issue like this one, it is too easy for all of us to slip to cocky, hyperbole and one-ups-man-ship For me that is especially true, when I am trying to accomplish something meaningful.

Takes a lot of character for you to post a "sorry", and back it up with constructive input. I accept with respect to you and a "Sorry", back at you that I put you in a position to say, "Sorry".

Man I love this site. A lot of good can be accomplished and along the way many great people to meet while doing it. Hope our paths cross in the near future.

PS. "pay It forward works", I just improved my response to MY Girl as a result of your post.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/01/11 09:43 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1322176 - 06/02/11 07:49 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
Tony,

I see the proposal like this:

It really isn’t any different than the 5 trout creel limit.

The state has a 5 fish limit on trout in general. However, nearly every body of water in CT, streams, ponds, and lakes, has a diverse perspective on this regulation. For instance East Twin, one brown trout over 20 inches per day, Salmon River 2 trout limit per day, and so on.

I can see this 4 rod initiative being handled in the same manner.

If for instance the Old Lyme dock at the DEP head Quarters is in fear of overcrowding with 4 rods, well then limit that fishing area, and so forth.

I just don’t see these projected issues as a factor to limit fisherman to only 2 rods.

As far as, 4 rods becoming too productive as it would be a hazard to the resource, the creel limits on fish are not changing, so therefore it is a moot point.

I think you’re doing a fine job on this subject, and you have my support 100%. I am very excited that this may in fact come into being.

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1322216 - 06/02/11 09:26 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Jack Offline

Member

Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 4751
Pistol that sounds like a good way to get around the areas that are too crowded to handle this change. The wording could be that there is a 4 rod limit per person unless posted in the area or noted in the DEP book.

Addicted to Kings!!! See you up in Lake O.

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#1322291 - 06/02/11 12:56 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
I am just brain farting/thinking out loud here :


During Ice fishing season we are allowed 6 lines each. We can cover alot more water with those 6 lines and being able to walk on water,actually some lakes and ponds see there greatest fishing pressure when ice covered and more lines are allowed

So basically we are just looking for a modification to an already excising 6 line rule.Not an entirely new one just modified a bit.We just want to be able to wet more lines year round.





Edited by Mike G (06/02/11 12:57 PM)

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1322314 - 06/02/11 02:16 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
Good point Mike! goodpost

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1322322 - 06/02/11 02:57 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
SaxMatt Offline

Member

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 521
I'm all in. Thanks for your work Tony!
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#1322746 - 06/03/11 08:19 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: SaxMatt]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Want to share an email from Peter Aarrestad that demonstrates the DEP's responsiveness and support to one sportsman's request.


Also, I want to take the opportunity to ask for constructive input regarding this proposed reg change. Your individual constructive participation can make a difference.

Tony:
Good speaking with you the other day.

I am contacting you mainly so that you have my contact info.

In addition, if you need any contacts (i.e., officers or committee chairs) for the FAC (Fisheries Advisory Council) at some point you can get them through Laura Fontanella who works in our office.

I provide you with some impressions from FAC after our meeting next week.

Pete

Peter Aarrestad
Director
Inland Fisheries Division
Connecticut Department of Environmental Protection
79 Elm Street
Hartford, CT 06106
860-424-4171
peter.aarrestad@ct.gov

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1322775 - 06/03/11 09:47 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
MyGirl Offline

Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1906
Wait a Minute here, First of all, I have yet to see a proposal as to why we need to have a four rod change to start with.
Secondly, I do not support the change.
You have done a lot of work, and thats obvious, but you haven't outlined whats driving this need, as well as how it will be supported and enforced.
To clarify things,
I do not support an across the board four rod proposal.
I do not support the labeling of rods used by fisherman.
I do not support the idea that areas could be monopolised by people with multiple rods, etc.
Legal or illegal, I don't see where you have made a statement that there is a need of this proposal.
I don't want you to represent to our folks in Hartford that we either approve or support the proposal until you have accurate info.

As far as I'm concerned, they can make the change if it doesn't impact on others. If it does, then the impacts need to be identified, and approved by those impacted. That's a far way from saying I support the change!

You've done a lot of work here, which others would have avoided, but you are jumping to conclusions too soon.
When the DEP says this is supported by Sportmens Groups, you can definitely say, that you have at least one voice against the change.
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#1322788 - 06/03/11 11:12 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: MyGirl]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: MyGirl
, it should be considered as an option (unless it proves to be too effective and a hazard to the resource).
While it may be a very good solution for some types of fishing, it should not be considered as an across the board practice for either fresh or salt water fisherman.
ORIGINAL POINT NOTED. BTW THERE IS NO ROD RESTRICTION ON SALT WATER

Originally Posted By: MyGirl
I have yet to see a proposal as to why we need ... NO NEED PRESUMED. A NUMBER OF FISHERMAN WANT IT AND HAVE STATED SO WITH REASONS IN THEIR POST.

...you haven't outlined whats driving this need, ..
ONCE AGAIN NO NEED STATED, JUST WANTS. IN A LARGER PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS NO NEED TO FISH, BUT MANY OF US WANT TO FISH.

I do not support an across the board four rod proposal. cLARIFIES YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT, ..."SHOULD BE CONSIDERED". NOTED.
I do not support the labeling of rods used by fisherman. NOT AN ISSUE. WORDING WAS PART OF A DRAFT.

I do not support the idea that areas could be monopolised by people with multiple rods, etc. NOTED, SEEMS REASONABLE

I don't want you to represent to our folks in Hartford that we either approve or support the proposal until you have accurate info. NOT SURE WHO THE WE IS THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO. ONLY POSTING SUPPORT AND NON-SUPPORT AND OPINIONS IN BETWEEN FROM THIS THREAD. ALL OPINIONS ARE SOLICITED.

As far as I'm concerned, they can make the change if it doesn't impact on others. GOT IT

..... but you are jumping to conclusions too soon.
NO CONCLUSIONS, JUST A STATEMENT OF PREFERENCES FROM A NUMBER OF SPORTSMAN ARE BEING REPORTED IN SUPPORT OF THE PROPOSAL AS WELL AS STATEMENTS NOT IN SUPPORT.

When the DEP says this is supported by Sportmens Groups, DON'T BELEIVE THAT THAT STATEMENT WAS MADE BY ANY PERSON OR DEPARTMENT. STATEMENT MADE IS THAT THE DEP DEMONSTRATED PRELIMINARY SUPPORT FOR THE PROPOSAL, BUT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH A PROTOCOL OF DUE DILIGENCE.

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. INPUT LIKE YOURS IS THE REASON FOR CREATING THIS WORKING THREAD.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/04/11 08:52 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1322832 - 06/04/11 11:34 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tmack9200 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 7535
Loc: Cape Cod, Westport Ma, Niantic...
While fishing the river this spring for shad, there was a guy going for stripers with chunk bait, he was above a popular point that many people cast at, his two lines went past the point down river which took away popular spots for about 20 fisherman.

He would not move and was asked, many people were upset about this. If he had 4 lines he could have easy controlled 150 yards of shore line, due to current moving his bait down river along the shore.. It was rediculous to see with 2 lines, I dont want to see it with 4 lines.

IMO 1 fisherman does not need to have 4 lines in the water unless they have 8 arms... Ice fishing is a different story, but I have never felt the need to fish more than two lines at once...

Chasing Tales Charters
Westport Point MA

Capt Todd Mackechnie
413-335-6382

https://www.facebook.com/Tmack9200




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#1322833 - 06/04/11 11:39 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
Quote:
IMO 1 fisherman does not need to have 4 lines in the water unless they have 8 arms... Ice fishing is a different story, but I have never felt the need to fish more than two lines at once...


I see your point but common courtesy is if you get to s spot first it is yours to fish,even if the current does drag your lines down stream.


Stacking down riggers requires more than 2 lines per angler ,running planer boards would be a great option.I sold mine set due to not being able to effectively use them here in CT because of the 2 line restriction.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1322849 - 06/04/11 01:09 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Mike G]
Tmack9200 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 7535
Loc: Cape Cod, Westport Ma, Niantic...
Originally Posted By: Mike G
[quote]
I see your point but common courtesy is if you get to s spot first it is yours to fish,even if the current does drag your lines down stream.



And I agree 100% thats why if he had 4 lines it would be absolutley ridiculous grin

Chasing Tales Charters
Westport Point MA

Capt Todd Mackechnie
413-335-6382

https://www.facebook.com/Tmack9200




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#1322867 - 06/04/11 03:02 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
Common courtesy would also be if i had a 4 line spread out from shore and you came along and wanted to fish ,I would take 2 of them in.

But we all know how uncommon, common courtesy really is lol At least anyone does who uses a public boat launch does biggrin

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1322932 - 06/04/11 09:37 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
MyGirl Offline

Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1906
Tony, first of all, let me congratulate you on being a person that follows up on ideas, rather than just throwing them around for others to pursue.
Now, let me explain what set me off. I provided you input on the change with the concern, that too many "legal" rods would enable people to take up too much shore line.
To my surprise, I then found that you listed me as a supporter of the proposed change! Thankfully you have corrected that on your list.
The bottom line on this subject from my perspective is this. There does not seem to be a driving need for the change. There might be some folks that would welcome the change for their particular type of fishing. Creating new regulations, also carries with it the need for resources to implement the change, and to find ways to enforce it. Now does not seem to be the time for pursuing "nice to haves."
I would suggest that rather than find ways to make it easier to catch fish that more effort be made to identify ways to improve ones effectiveness at catching fish within the existing guides and regulations than loosening them.
Ask yourself this question: If I were to set a new record under the loosened/new regulations, would it be as special as if I set it under the old rules? That may put the question of "Wants" and "needs" in a whole different perspective.
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#1322968 - 06/05/11 04:00 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Doug S Offline

Member

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 75
Loc: Hamden CT
As a troller, I support the 4 line change. Although I would second the voice of many that I shouldn't have to put my name on my rods. If they are in my boat, I think the assumption is they are mine.
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#1322973 - 06/05/11 06:10 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
Here is why I am such a great all around angler.

It is because I become easily bored with one type or style of fishing.I am always trying new things,chasing different species and fishing a variety of CT waters.There is no type of fishing in CT I do not have some sort of understanding of. I am comfortable fishing for anything that swims in CT waters.Last count I owned 43 differant rod and reel combos for many types of fishing.If it swims in CT I have gear to catch it.


Being allowed more than 2 rods would allow anglers like myself to keep learning and trying new things,which will make us even better anglers.


As far as guys who say we do not need 4 rods,I feel bad for you,I do. You have given up on learning and trying new fishing methods,maybe you've become to one dimensional when fishing.

Some of us are not just bait dunkers,some of us are scientific anglers always in search of something new.

The current 2 rod restriction ties our hands and keeps CT anglers from certain types of angling which some of us would like to try/learn.It would be a shame to see anglers take there fishing dollars out of state where more lines are legal.

I had all the equipment for planer board fishing,but could not effectively utilize it here in CT so I sold all my planer board gear.

Same thing with my down riggers,sold them due to not being able to fully utilize them here in CT.

There is more to fishing than just chucking lures and dunking bait............


Edited by Mike G (06/05/11 06:13 AM)

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1322989 - 06/05/11 09:11 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tmack9200 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 7535
Loc: Cape Cod, Westport Ma, Niantic...
Mike,

How would you be a scientific angler using 4 rods while fishing a river bank and not being a bait dunker


I'm not understanding what your saying! For example when I go fishing in my boat I usually have minimal 6 rods with me, but I can't cast and retrieve more than one at a time, I'm very talented, but not that talented... biggrin If what I'm using isn't producing any bites, I take it off and tie something new.. Usually I have different lures/flies/bait on each rod, and rotate through them until I find something that works..

Are you guys saying its illegal to have more than two rods on your possession right now? If thats the case you should be allowed to carry as many as you wish, but 3 guys trolling 12 rods for trout????? C'mon..... We don't even use near that for the canyons, or sharking, or trolling the reefs and thats usually with 7 or 8 people on the boat.... 6 packs charters for stripers will troll 2 rods 99% of the time... I would love to see how you get 12 lines out of a 12' aluminum boat, and would really love to see the tangles when you hook a fish....

Just sounds ridiculous that 4 guys could go to a little pond from shore and have 16 lines in, the only way your fishing like that is being a bait dunker, and the only thing you will manage to do is get swallowed hooks if more than one fish takes the bait...


Perhaps the current law should be changed for people using a planer board, since thats really the only way that you can utilize 4 rods out of a boat with one person, any other way would be bait dunking I would support the planer board theroy....





Edited by Tmack9200 (06/05/11 09:13 AM)

Chasing Tales Charters
Westport Point MA

Capt Todd Mackechnie
413-335-6382

https://www.facebook.com/Tmack9200




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#1322993 - 06/05/11 09:37 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
How would you be a scientific angler using 4 rods while fishing a river bank and not being a bait dunker You got me here. BUT...you could use a bottom rig in combination with a hi low rig to fid bottom fish or suspended fish,more rods would shorten the search.You could also target carp with 2 rods and target cats with 2 other rods,both require different equipment


I'm not understanding what your saying! For example when I go fishing in my boat I usually have minimal 6 rods with me, but I can't cast and retrieve more than one at a time, I'm very talented, but not that talented... biggrin If what I'm using isn't producing any bites, I take it off and tie something new.. Usually I have different lures/flies/bait on each rod, and rotate through them until I find something that works..With planer boards we have run 8 rod spreads on Lake O,planer boards allow you to spread your lines out and away from the boat,you can than run different plugs in different colors at different depths at the same time narrowing down time spent searching out a pattern 2 rods at a time.Stacking down riggers you can run multiple lines off one rigger with different baits set at different depths

Are you guys saying its illegal to have more than two rods on your possession right now? If thats the case you should be allowed to carry as many as you wish, but 3 guys trolling 12 rods for trout????? C'mon..... We don't even use near that for the canyons, or sharking, or trolling the reefs and thats usually with 7 or 8 people on the boat.... 6 packs charters for stripers will troll 2 rods 99% of the time... I would love to see how you get 12 lines out of a 12' aluminum boat, and would really love to see the tangles when you hook a fish....My 12' tin can has 6 atwood rod holders on it and I have used everyone at times. I use different length rods in specific rod holders from 6' in length to 10' in length.The longer rods act as outriggers and keep lines from tangling,again different depth plugs,different type plugs

Just sounds ridiculous that 4 guys could go to a little pond from shore and have 16 lines in, the only way your fishing like that is being a bait dunker, and the only thing you will manage to do is get swallowed hooks if more than one fish takes the bait...Are we talking the same pond 20 guys ice fish on weekends with 120+ lines and hooks


Perhaps the current law should be changed for people using a planer board, since thats really the only way that you can utilize 4 rods out of a boat with one person, any other way would be bait dunking I would support the planer board theroy....Hopefully you see the fault now in this statement


Good points Todd,hopefully I have shed some light on this for you and I love a good debate



Edited by Mike G (06/05/11 09:39 AM)

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1322996 - 06/05/11 09:39 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tmack9200 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 7535
Loc: Cape Cod, Westport Ma, Niantic...
Just playing devils advocate, you guys will meet some resistence and need to be prepared smile1


By the way you probally know how much I desire ice fishing... They should change the law for ice fishing to 1 rod per person or even ban it stirthepot biggrin

Actually my lake in Vt didn't have their annual slaughter fest ice derby this year due to bad ice, and so far the fishing has been great smile1 Best I've ever seen...


Edited by Tmack9200 (06/05/11 09:43 AM)

Chasing Tales Charters
Westport Point MA

Capt Todd Mackechnie
413-335-6382

https://www.facebook.com/Tmack9200




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#1323001 - 06/05/11 09:47 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
I agree 100% Todd.

That is what makes fishing such a great sport, when you get bored with one style or species we just try something else.


Fishing has hundreds of styles from Noodling cats to chasing Mako's.



And I am not anti bait dunker to clarify. I love bait,heck I am a master baiter biggrin Started out with a string on a stick with a pieceof worm my grandfather handed me at Keeney cove. I make my own chums and use some very unconventional baits at times.Bait dunking and beer drinking are one of my favorite types of fishing !

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1323002 - 06/05/11 09:50 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tmack9200]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Guys

He said she said is counter productive for both sides of the issue. Please use this thread for constructive factual input.
Discourteous fisherman are the problem
Putting four rods in their hands does not help the problem. I would hate to throw the baby out with the bath water and only focus on 4rods for trollers only. There are many carp fisherman and other bank fisherman who demonstrate good sportsmanship.

Instead of trying to shout over the other guy on the opposite side of the issue let's build a list of seasonal times and bank spots where 4 rod creates a burden for the sport.

There is a way to do this right through constructive and factual input. Sent from iPhone excuse typos.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/05/11 08:22 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1323012 - 06/05/11 10:49 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tmack9200 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 7535
Loc: Cape Cod, Westport Ma, Niantic...
Understood Tony, I didn't realize this thread was set up for only positive input, no debate, no freedom of speech... Either you support it or don't contribute to it, probally why out of 2500 members only 22 support...

Chasing Tales Charters
Westport Point MA

Capt Todd Mackechnie
413-335-6382

https://www.facebook.com/Tmack9200




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#1323083 - 06/05/11 05:59 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
firehawk Offline

Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 584
Just a viewpoint from a troller who 50% of the time is trolling solo...

Right now I would use 4 rods in this manner:
2 - riggers
1 - surface
1 - lead core

Take Twin for example, there are times the riggers are hot, then the rigger bite stops and the lead core starts.

Also, I could choose to target mutiple species - 1 rigger for trout and one for kokanee.

I do this with great ease when Kayley's in the boat - so doing it when I am by myself would be the same :-)

Planer boards for lakes like Lakeville, Twin, etc - are useless in my opinion. Just like your case of a bank fisherman taking up to much area the boat does the same. At Lakeville to stay in a specific FOW sometimes there is a narrow channel as it is without boards.

I can tell you that the effect of having 4 rods in the water is so much more productive then when I only have 2. I may be a 'fool', but I believe that the extra lines help attract the fish - which is half the battle when trolling.

So, I have made comments like "I would gladly pay for another license to be able to fish with 2 more rods". And I still say that, when you look at the amount of money I spend on the sport that's such a small amount - who cares. It would make my trolling experience better, though.

It appears to me that one solution would be to charge, now I have seen all the posts mentioning "no more taxes, etc" but if you charge then what percentage of guys would have it? The state makes a little money - to go to enforcement for example & the fisherman who see it as a great way to enhance their sport would buy it.

If it's free then everyone will be doing it...

Sorry, if this is in the wrong thread but I see a fee as a viable option to site & seasonal restrictions...

I think it's ironic how the most people who are against this option do not freshwater troll for trout. The majority of the best trout guys on this site are all in favor - so either the trout guys just don't know how to fish or ... I'm not saying that you need to fall in line, etc - but if the majority of the top trout guys on the site are in favor of this idea then there must be some factual basis for the desire to propose this change.

Maybe a question and answer thread from the 'trout trolling guys & carp guys' with the rest of the site. That way the understanding of why, with exact answers and scenarios can be given to shed light as to the 'wanting' of this.

Again, I see the biggest impact in the boat when you are fishing solo - which alot of trout guys do.


Edited by firehawk (06/05/11 08:16 PM)
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#1323116 - 06/05/11 07:27 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
I just copied this from a report in the out of states forum Brian put up.

Quote:
Saturday the first mate didn't show up so I did most of the setting up of the ten rods off of planer boards and down riggers, man I was in my glory, and we almost limited out, short just one fish ( we caught 11 , the biggest being 6-7 lbs).


Yes Brian says 10 rods........

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1323154 - 06/05/11 08:48 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tmack9200]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: Tony Mel
the issues raised on this thread concerning crowded shoreline space, un-sportsman like behavior and safety on CT's shoreline fishing requires thoughtful-constructive input from experienced fisherman. ............... Bottomline is that we need broad, constructive and responsible input

Originally Posted By: Tony Mel

let's build a list of seasonal times and bank spots where 4 rod creates a burden for the sport.

There is a way to do this right through constructive and factual input.


Please post banks spots and seasonal times where a 4-rod option would be a burden to the sport.


Edited by Tony Mel (06/05/11 08:56 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
Top
#1323699 - 06/07/11 01:20 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Capt. Alewife Offline

Member

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 4466
Loc: "fiddle ridge"
Wow..

i sure missed alot i haven't been on here much . But It seems like theres no shortage of debate on this topic.

Im a bit confused about all the "bait dunking" comments, I mean whats that all about anyways?? it sounds like some people want to start a "Ban bait fishing" pettion next???? WTF ?

the proprosal is to use 4 rods.. not whats on the rods??

What is the problem if a guy wants to fish for carp with four Rods with "homemade bait" ??

or if a guy want to to use Planer Boards from a boat to troll stickbaits or livies for Walleye ???????????

what about the guy that want to fish his "local Lake" from shore. Say he fish 2 bobbers. one bait on bottom and want to cast a fly around while watching the bobbers???

what about the lake trollers who can easily fish mulitple lines stacked and different depths and distances from the boat.??????

or if a guy wants to chunk bait fish with four rods?if your in a boat its not like any of those lines would be "unattended" I dont see the problem ??

yeah the angler has the possiblity of hooking and fighting multiple fish at one time. whats the problem??? isn't that fishing at its best??fun?? i personally have landed multiple fish with two sometimes 3 hooked at one time.. HOW??? sometimes i get lucky, and a little skill.

It seems people have the " if I dont need it NOBODY DOES grrrr" attitude.which is pretty silly if you ask me. If you dont want to use 4 rods dont. Leave to the well rounded anglers whose pursuits in angling go a bit deeper than casting one lure around , and CAN AND WILL benefit from this change.Its all personal prefrence and how you choose to fish.

I would say that this should be a extra option, and in some areas " trout parks,TMAs not be permitted. If you make it a extra option then not everyone will get it.. Just the guys that really want it and will use it will.


I support this proposal as a Avid CT angler who fishes for multiple species from Boat and shore.






Edited by Capt. Alewife (06/07/11 01:26 AM)

fishing is like life.. you learn as you go.and I can't stop learning

There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.- Steven Wright

" they've hit that before, they'll hit it again!! leave it out there TILL they hit it!~"
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#1323703 - 06/07/11 05:25 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
This change would just give us more angling options,multiple rods would also mean we can target multiple species at once.

4 rods would not work in the TMA's and maybe a few very small ponds ,but overall CT has enough water for 4 rods to be beneficial to anglers.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1323809 - 06/07/11 11:53 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Capt. Alewife]
KillTaker Offline

FUJH GSABFD DYKWIM

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1884
Loc: Southbury, CT
Originally Posted By: Capt. Alewife
Wow..

i sure missed alot i haven't been on here much . But It seems like theres no shortage of debate on this topic.

Im a bit confused about all the "bait dunking" comments, I mean whats that all about anyways?? it sounds like some people want to start a "Ban bait fishing" pettion next???? WTF ?

the proprosal is to use 4 rods.. not whats on the rods??

What is the problem if a guy wants to fish for carp with four Rods with "homemade bait" ??

or if a guy want to to use Planer Boards from a boat to troll stickbaits or livies for Walleye ???????????

what about the guy that want to fish his "local Lake" from shore. Say he fish 2 bobbers. one bait on bottom and want to cast a fly around while watching the bobbers???

what about the lake trollers who can easily fish mulitple lines stacked and different depths and distances from the boat.??????

or if a guy wants to chunk bait fish with four rods?if your in a boat its not like any of those lines would be "unattended" I dont see the problem ??

yeah the angler has the possiblity of hooking and fighting multiple fish at one time. whats the problem??? isn't that fishing at its best??fun?? i personally have landed multiple fish with two sometimes 3 hooked at one time.. HOW??? sometimes i get lucky, and a little skill.

It seems people have the " if I dont need it NOBODY DOES grrrr" attitude.which is pretty silly if you ask me. If you dont want to use 4 rods dont. Leave to the well rounded anglers whose pursuits in angling go a bit deeper than casting one lure around , and CAN AND WILL benefit from this change.Its all personal prefrence and how you choose to fish.

I would say that this should be a extra option, and in some areas " trout parks,TMAs not be permitted. If you make it a extra option then not everyone will get it.. Just the guys that really want it and will use it will.


I support this proposal as a Avid CT angler who fishes for multiple species from Boat and shore.







Well said!!!
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#1324374 - 06/09/11 07:51 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
Yeah what Alewife said!!!

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1324428 - 06/09/11 10:06 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
elcapitanmas Offline

Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2961
I'm just getting a chance to sit down after bouncing back and forth from upstate NY the past couple weekends.

The 4 rod proposal is a HUGE topic for bank fisherman like myself. While I target only carp, having the opportunity to present 3 or 4 different baits makes a HUGE difference. If I am to spend 30+ hours on the bank to catch 1 or 2 30+lb fish I need all the advantages I can get. Carp fishing is 100% catch and release by specimen fisherman and 90% of the sport is concentrated on fish care. The euro style of fishing for carp is pretty advanced using alarms and pagers to know when a fish is hooked, all rods need to be close and able to reach in a matter of seconds. Understandably there will be concerns of people not using common sense and taking up more bankspace than necessary, but that happens anyway, always has always will. Out of the THOUSANDS of hours I've spent on the water, I've maybe seen it cause a problem 1 time and once it was pointed out, the fisherman reset his lines as to not cause problems. This proposal changes nothing with creel limits or any of the other laws allready in place. As DIE HARD fisherman it is also our duty to keep things in check while fishing which with the help of the tip line we've done VERY well at. Plain and simple being able to use 4 rods as a bankfisherman or troller makes spending time on the water and fishing more enjoyable. I also forgot to mention the draw for out of state fisherman. As far as carp go, Ct is a GREAT STATE for carp fishing. Many carp guys TRAVEL THROUGH on the way to the carp mecca (upstate NY) A rod increase would DEF. help with out of staters stopping to fish in Ct on their travels thereby increasing license sales.

Ethan


Edited by elcapitanmas (06/09/11 10:26 AM)
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#1324449 - 06/09/11 10:39 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
firehawk Offline

Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 584
party2
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#1324476 - 06/09/11 11:17 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
BRShuntfish Online   content

Member

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 683
Mike G asked for my support on this 3-4 rod proposal. I haven't been on top of current events lately with the site.
I whole heartedly support this proposal.
I troll alot and being allowed 4 rods not only will increase the area covered while trolling, but would keep me busy while trolling which I love.
As far as bank fishing goes,as long as there is room on the bank and the fisherperson tending the rods is closeby, whats the harm. I don't carp fish but I understand it's similar to catfishing which I love to do, multple lines deffinately increases your chances of catching fish.
Obvious discretion needs to be addressed when arriving at your bank/shoreline spot, I don't think you should assume you can use 4 rods when you get there, If theres not enough room for you and fellow fishermen to have 4 rods out then don't put 4 rods out.

Brian Roy Stevens
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#1324553 - 06/09/11 03:29 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: BRShuntfish]
shadbody Offline

Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1068
Why don't you take another person with you?
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#1324563 - 06/09/11 03:56 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: shadbody]
KillTaker Offline

FUJH GSABFD DYKWIM

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1884
Loc: Southbury, CT
Originally Posted By: shadbody
Why don't you take another person with you?


Yep, think you are missing the point....
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#1324625 - 06/09/11 07:42 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
shadbody Offline

Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1068
What point am I missing. You want to use 4 rods take a person with you, one side of the boat is theirs and you have the other side.
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#1324678 - 06/10/11 12:03 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
elcapitanmas Offline

Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2961
It's not just about boat fisherman, this proposal covers a wide range of anglers. I bring people all the time that are new to the carp Chase. To have a couple extra lines in the water is HUGE! Even to be able to cast a panfish line while some baits are soaking can often make a trip to the water that much more enjoyable.
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#1324692 - 06/10/11 07:24 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: shadbody]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
Originally Posted By: shadbody
What point am I missing. You want to use 4 rods take a person with you, one side of the boat is theirs and you have the other side.


your missing the point !

There are many styles of fishing where 4 rods would be beneficial,all discussed pereviously on this topic.Maybe you should read all the posts before commenting.Education is key .

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1324785 - 06/10/11 10:55 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
trout tracker Offline

RIP GreenGlo Bob

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 3437
Loc: Terryville
In refrence to "What point am I missing.", I fish alone a lot and that is why it would be nice to use the extra rods. I could run 2 at the 35'-40' depth for kokes and 2 at the 20-25' mark for the trout at the same time. If I had someone with me then maybe it would be 6 rods in the water or maybe 8 if I had a bigger boat. All the while not covering anymore territory than someone running two long lead lines. I can run 4 rigger lines and not take up anywhere near the amount of area from the lead lines.
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#1324792 - 06/10/11 11:28 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
SaxMatt Offline

Member

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 521
Here are some reasons why I support the 4 rod initiative:

I fish for carp and the action can be very slow. I've probably been skunked more often than not when carp fishing in CT. Because of the style of fishing 4 rods would greatly improve my odds and give me more hope during those slow days. Carp fishing is similar to trapping: you scout and bait an area and set up your rods in 1 location and wait for the fish to show up. You never know if the fish will be there, how deep they will be, or what they will hit. I usually leave my rods in for 30 minutes to an hour before checking my bait, which doesn't give me many casts to experiment and figure out a pattern. If I can use 4 rods that means I can try 4 different depths and 4 different baits, which will allow me to figure out a pattern much quicker. It's all about covering more water and improving your odds. Take a look at professional bass fisherman: they often have 4 or more rods rigged up with different baits, and they can use their boat and electronics to scout large areas with a variety of different depths and cover. They only use 1 rod at a time but have the ability to cover way more water and experiment a lot more than a carp fisherman can, even if we're allowed to use 4 rods. Using 4 rods will improve our odds and make fishing more enjoyable. I think if this law is passed it will also help boost the popularity of fishing in CT. I've spoken to several out of state carp fisherman that have said they would buy a license and fish in CT if they could use 4 rods. It will also be good for beginners because carp fishing is tough and if beginners can use 4 rods they are twice as likely to hook up with a fish.

Down here in Jersey we are allowed to use 3 rods and I haven't had any problems with other people regarding the number of lines in the water. The only problem I've had is feisty carp swimming across my other lines tangling them up, but that happens with 2 rods also. I don't see any big negatives to having extra lines. For the most part people who will be using 4 rods understand fishing etiquette and the guys that cause problems by putting out way too many lines are already doing so illegally.

Thanks to the other supporters for putting their time into this initiative.
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#1324997 - 06/11/11 08:14 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: SaxMatt]
Jerome Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: SaxMatt
Using 4 rods will improve our odds and make fishing more enjoyable. I think if this law is passed it will also help boost the popularity of fishing in CT. I've spoken to several out of state carp fisherman that have said they would buy a license and fish in CT if they could use 4 rods.


Well, I am an out of state carp angler, I live near Boston, MA. Whenever I can get a few days of vacations, I often take my car and drive somewhere in neighbor states and try to find carp, exploring and scouting multiple spots. I spent a lot of time in NYS and in Quebec. I never really did it in CT, but I know I should as fantastic fish have been caught by CT anglers in this beautiful state.

Allowing 4-rods would send me to CT right away, multiple times a year! Why? Because it is just so much more effective and enjoyable to explore new spots using more than 2 rods. Carp fishing tends to be slow and difficult, and this is even harder when you explore new venues. Having the opportunity to use multiple rods allows to test multiple distances, multiple bait, multiple rigs, etc. This makes carp fishing so much more enjoyable.

Also, I'm an expatriate from Europe (France), and carp fishing is BIG in Europe. And 4 rods is the norm out there. And European carp anglers would just love to find a very scenic east coast state in the US where they could spend vacations, spend their money and enjoy carp fishing as they are used to.

So... It's not only about making local anglers more happy, I genuinely believe this proposal has a significant economical value for the state of CT (fishing licenses and more).
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#1325147 - 06/11/11 07:06 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
Amen

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1325287 - 06/12/11 10:03 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Since this thread is 4-pages long i am providing a synopsis.

DEP is supportive of a 4-rod option and is using the FAC as a sounding board in their due diligence process. This thread will also provide a DEP/FAC sounding board.
The FAC meets in June and Sept. I may be invited, along with others, to attend a Q & A session at the FAC Sept meeting. The following is a revision of the original post.

. Rough Draft CT Proposal:

Up to 4-rods maybe used by licensed fisherman, No shoreline fisherman can occupy more than 5-feet of shoreline per rod.

This thread should serve as a sounding board for the DEP/FAC's consideration. Please express your support and/or opposition to a "4- rod option" reg change and provide a helpful reason, because a "4-rod" reg change should be a win-win and not imperil the experience of other fisherman.



Edited by Tony Mel (06/12/11 10:16 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1328411 - 06/21/11 04:14 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
MisterMeaner Offline

Member

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Hazardville, CT
Please include me (Michael Beaudry, Enfield, CT) in favor of the "4-Rod Innitiative". Fishing with my elderly father at times, its much easier, satisifying and beneficiary put out two plaining boards and downriggers with multiples rods on each to keep them even while trolling. Traveling out of state several times a year to other fisheries because we can use more than 4 rods per person, we would be delighted and grateful to stay in the area and spend our money on local gas stations, food and lodging in the great state of Connecticut.

I was and am a big supporter of Sunday Hunting, Private Land Only, With Land Owner Permission, Bill 5158, which never got called to the floor this past session. This current innitiative can be done within the DEP, without state reps who have hidden agendas, and I give it my full support.

~Mike

~Michael Beaudry
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#1328679 - 06/22/11 10:37 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Peter Aarrestad, Director, Inland Fisheries Division gave me an update re the “4-rod Option” FAC discussion.

The FAC met on June 9th and the, “4-rod Option” was discussed. In general, the “option” was favorably received. Peter, noted that the FAC was an advisory board and the DEP is the decision making body in the process.

In the FAC meeting some of the same issues posted in this thread were discussed by FAC , such as, attending rods, hogging space and restricting areas for a 4-rod option.

It was noted that problems of sportsmen’s ethics in hogging shoreline is only a problem with “5%” of licensed fisherman, whether it be 2-rods or 4-rods, none the less, language needs to be crafted to address the issue.

Next Steps:

1. I am asked to develop a “white paper” which includes a synopsis of other state regs- I have already done the research. I will draft the “white paper” and ask for input from elcaptainmas, Mike G, MisterMeaner, Pistol, Sax Matt(PM being sent) and any others who want to participate. Our draft will be sent to Aarrestaad fo his commentary.

2. On Thursday, September 8, we are invited to attended a FAC meeting to make a presentation/ answer questions.

If anyone one would like to be involved in this process(white paper and/or Sept 8th meeting), whether you are for or against this proposal, please, PM me.





Edited by Tony Mel (06/22/11 10:49 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1328730 - 06/22/11 11:56 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mike G Offline

Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 11688
Loc: NW CT
Nice work Tony. We will discuss this further on the boat.I have a few ideas to run by you. Most likely I will be able to attend the meeting in September.

Again thanks for pushing so hard for this thankyou

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
- Charlton Heston (1924-2008)
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#1328748 - 06/22/11 12:34 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
elcapitanmas Offline

Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2961
depending on the time and location I will attend the meeting, I spoke with mitch about it last night. The more supporters we have at the meeting the better. We should keep in mind that there are cons to this proposal and be prepared to speak about them.

Thanks again TM!
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#1328752 - 06/22/11 12:41 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Pistol Offline

BIG Yellow Broom Stick

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 5206
Loc: South Meriden, CT
Count me in too Tony ~

I miss my Uncle Lewie....However;
I know he's with me on every fishing trip.

2009 CT Saltwater Angler of the Year ~> CT DEEP
1st Place 2009 Team Tuesday Fluke Off

My wife Claire with the Red hair is: A Flukin Princess
Get Outdoors and Enjoy Life!
Lifetime member of the NRA
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#1328789 - 06/22/11 03:18 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: elcapitanmas]
Mitch P. Offline



Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 22484
Originally Posted By: elcapitanmas
depending on the time and location I will attend the meeting, I spoke with mitch about it last night. The more supporters we have at the meeting the better. We should keep in mind that there are cons to this proposal and be prepared to speak about them.

Thanks again TM!


e, very nice talking with you last night and learning more about carp fishing. I'm always up for trying new kinds of fishing and it looks like a lot of fun and something I would love to try. I shot you a PM regarding FAC.
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#1343294 - 08/16/11 11:28 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
1. Below is the final revised copy of the “4-rod” White Paper. If you have statements either pro or con you want read at the Sept 8th meeting please PM them to me.

Re: Amendment Request for CT, 26-112-43

The White Paper is organized into 3-parts:

Part 1. - Section I., Executive Summary, sets forth the change request and supportive summary statements.
(Since CT salt-water angling regs do not restrict “line” use, this amendment would apply to fresh-water angling only.)

Part 2. - Section II. , Supportive Briefs, included segments intended to backup the Executive Summary statements.

Part 3. - An addendum that reports excerpts of State Fishery regs pertaining to “line” use.

I. Executive Summary:


A. Proposed Change:

Currently, In-land fisheries reg, CT, 26-112-43, states in part:

(a) "Angling” means fishing with hook and line which shall be personally attended, but shall not include ice fishing or snagging or snatching. Not more than two lines, with or without rods, may be used at one time.

This request is to change CT, 26-112-43, to read, “not more than four lines” and add, “When using more than 2 rods, no one angler may occupy more than 20-feet of shoreline”.


Incorporating the above verbiage the reg change could read as follows:

(a) "Angling" means fishing with hook and line which shall be personally attended, but shall not include ice fishing or snagging or snatching. Not more than four lines, with or without rods, may be used at one time. When using more than two lines, no one angler may occupy more than 20' of shoreline.

B. Summary Rational for the Proposed Change

Freshwater “line” limitations vary across the country. The limitations run the gamut from one “1-line” to no “line” limitations and all states contacted, including CT, are not able to state an underlying rational for their “line” regs.

Absent an underlying reg rational, state regs are conventions. Conventions shaped by unknown influences and rendered sacrosanct by “time on the books”. Many hypothesize these “line” limitations are set by a rational process that addresses the fishery’s requirements and the needs of anglers. However, “line” regs viewed from a macro view perspective appear to be arbitrary and set by imitation.

In Section II, C., below, a grouping of “line” regs reveals a remarkable pattern of “regional-imitation”. A study of the state grouping gives rise to questions: What is the rational for the disparity in “line” regs between CT, MA, RI, ‘2-lines” and FL, LA, TX -no limit? What do the popular state fisheries like FL, LA and TX, that have extraordinary fishery management programs, know or don’t know about fisheries management as compared to states like CT, MA and RI? Are the sportsman standards in any of these states different? Are the per capita dollars spent for the fisheries in these states different? Is there a rational response to a disparity in regional inter-state “line” regs?

Rational answers to the above are difficult to find and are lost impart to an imitative regulatory process. For me the unanswered questions raise another question, “Why not a “4-line” option?” A “4-line” option would enhance the angling experience of many sportsmen and attract angling / tourism dollars to CT’s beautiful fresh waters.

As an aside, CT’s saltwater sport-angling from relatively scarce public shorelines has no line limitation, while fresh water angling is limited to “2-Lines”. CT may stand alone with an unexplainable “line” reg convention.

Be that as it may, times are changing and Northeast “line” limitations are being liberalized to enhance angler satisfaction and improve inter-state competition for angling dollars. In these changing times CT’s “2-lines” places CT at a disadvantage in the inter-state competition for angling dollars.

NY and other states are recognizing that in-state sportsmen’s expenditures are significant economic- drivers.
NY is in the process of changing their “line” reg under New York’s proposed reg, NY S2462B-2011-NY.

“catching more fish under a broad array of techniques enhances angler satisfaction more than any other factor, which in turn will increase the demand for fishing licenses and stimulate in-state angling expenditures.... New Jersey and Michigan both have a 3-rod rule, from which they have continued to see a favorable impact to their recreational fisherman.”

Additionally, Pennsylvania, has proposed changes to become effective in January 1, 2012:
Subpart B. Fishing, CHAPTER 63. GENERAL FISHING REGULATIONS, § 63.6. Authorized devices for game fish, baitfish and fishbait.
(a) It is unlawful to fish for game fish with more than [two being changed to] three lines of any description, whether fished by rod or by hand, at one time…

Unfortunately, in view of NJ, NY and PA migration to a “3-line” limit, it appears that regional-imitation underpins the change process.

NY’s Legislative preamble provides a noteworthy recognition of the consumer demand relationship to state economic-drivers:
” the increased appeal to …small crewed boats, the 'weekend warrior', the recreationalist, the vacationer, the retired couple who have saved up for a boat and now have the time and health to use it will all benefit from this…Return visits to the fishery are a boon to the local economies. Return trips mean more money spent locally for fuel, food, lodging, launches, parking, and rentals.” (Preamble, NY S2462B-2011-NY)”

In comparison to NJ, NY and PA, CT’s “2-line” convention diminishes angling satisfaction and restricts certain angling techniques for carp, cat and troller fisherman. And, as neighboring states increase “line” conventions, inter-state competition for angling dollars will increase, which will negatively impact important CT state economic-drivers. Conversely, a “4-line” option makes CT fresh waters more attractive to anglers and will give CT a competitive advantage with a rational “line” reg (see II, B.) over our neighboring states that are adopting “3-line” imitation standards.

While a “4-line” option would benefit the state and sportsmen-anglers, it may produce unintended consequences to some angling experiences on children’s ponds, certain trout waters, crowded shorelines and the like. These potential issues could/would be addressed by the following:
1.These waters could/should be governed by local regs, in a similar manner to the current exception process that applies to CT’s freshwaters.
2. Further more, a “4-line” option would prove impractical on many fast-moving waters and, thus, self-regulating.
3. Finally, the reg change insertion of, “When using more than 2 rods, no one angler may occupy more than 20' of shoreline “, would improve issues concerning angler etiquette, as it pertains to “hogging” the shoreline, while improving the experience of all sportsmen.


Finally, it should be noted, that the “4-rod” proposed option would not exploit the fishery, since creel limits will remain unchanged.




II. Supportive Briefs


A. Economic-Drivers/ Inter-state Competition:

In the Northeast it appears that “2-line” conventions are giving way to inter-state competition for sportsmen expenditures. The “2-line” convention has been liberalized in NJ and MI, and NY/PA have proposed legislation to change their legislation to “3-lines”.

NY’s preamble, to the proposed 3-line legislative change, specifically states “angling expenditures” as a driver for change.

Attention to these economic-drivers in interstate sportsmen competition is substantiated by the American Sportsfishing Association Statistics for CT-2006. The 2006 report represents the most recent study and portrays the importance of sportsmen expenditures to CT’s economy. A review of the 2006 statistics set forth below demonstrates that sportsmen’s in-state retail sales generate an almost 2 to 1 dollar for dollar increase to in-state expenditures through an economic multiplier effect, which in turn creates jobs, salaries and tax revenue.

• CT Sportsmen Retail Sales = $268,881,719
• Total Economic Impact Multiplier = $445,971,378
• Salaries, Wages, Business Owner’s Income = $156,468,052
• Jobs = 4,465
• Federal Tax Revenue = $42,070,001
• State & Local Tax Revenue = $28,480,265

http://www.asafishing.org/statistics/saleco_trends/2006ei_all_state.html

As more anglers are attracted to CT waters, more angling dollars will be spent in CT which generates more jobs, more tackle store revenue, more state revenue, etc.

A rationally based “line” reg policy that appeals to a broad array of angling techniques will benefit important CT economic-drivers.



B. The Demand Side / Angler Satisfaction

Supporters of this reg change applaud NY, NJ, PA, etc., actions to break away from archaic conventions. However, we ask that an implicit question be answered before setting any “line” standard. What is the underlying rational for “line” regs?

While a “more is better” “line” convention has “economic driver” merit from the perspective of inter-state competition, it ignores angler-specialist demand to the detriment of inter-state competitive advantage.
Anglers engaged in specialized, sportsmen-angling pursuits, such as “trollers”, carp and cat fisherman would be attracted to CT’s freshwaters by a “4-line” option. Typically, these anglers travel long distances and spend big dollars in the pursuit of their angling experience.

This section will attempt to provide a rational answer in support of the “4-line” option from a sportsmen’s perspectives:

“Motor trolling” Fisherman: (trailing a lure, bait, or similar device used to attract or catch fish from a boat while being propelled (Wisconsin Anglers Guide)

Angler 1.

Right now I would use 4 rods in this manner:
2 - riggers
1 - surface
1 - lead core

Take Twin Lake for example, there are times the downriggers are hot, then the rigger bite stops and the lead core starts.

Also, I could choose to target multiple species - 1 rigger for trout and one for kokanee.

I do this with great ease when my young daughter is in the boat - so doing it when I am by myself would be the same :-)

I can tell you that the effect of having 4 rods in the water is so much more productive then when I only have 2… I believe that the extra lines help attract the fish - which is half the battle when trolling.

Angler 2.

I fish alone a lot and that is why it would be nice to use the extra rods. I could run 2 at the 35'-40' depth for kokes and 2 at the 20-25' mark for the trout at the same time. If I had someone with me then maybe it would be 6 rods in the water or maybe 8 if I had a bigger boat- all the while not occupying any more territory than someone running two long lead lines. I can run 4 rigger lines and not take up anywhere near the amount of area from the lead lines.

Angler 3.

Traveling out of state several times a year to other fisheries because we can use more than 4 rods per person, we would be delighted and grateful to stay in the area and spend our money on local gas stations, food and lodging in the great state of Connecticut.

4. Why are Ct’s fresh-waters rod regs different from CT’s salt-waters rod regs? The Race, Rocky Neck jetty’s and other popular salt-water areas can get very crowded and yet it doesn’t seemed to cause a problem.



• Carp & Cat Fisherman


Angler 1.

The Ct chapter of the Carp anglers group consists of about 20 ACTIVE members whose goals are: To recognize carp as an exciting and challenging sport fish, To become better carp anglers by assisting others and encouraging them to do the same, To treat carp with respect and promote the release of trophy size fish, Most of all, go fishing and HAVE FUN. The carp-anglers group is a nationwide club with additional members from all over the world. Carp angling is one of the fastest growing angling segments in the country.

For the past 2 years Hartford Ct has been host to the "Tournament of Champions" The TOC is the "finals" of the C.A.R.P tournament series held across the USA. The Ct river is known as a great fishery for all species, ESPECIALLY carp. Fisherman travel from all over the country to fish it, and it is ALWAYS on the "to do" list for carp guys.

The four rod proposal, if passed, would help to bring more out of state carp fisherman to the state of Ct. Being able to use four rods helps us on the Long session trips (sometimes up to 40 hours on the bank. Many fisherman from our neighboring states visit at least once a year for our friendly Mass vs Ct tournament, and would visit more if they had the chance to use up to 4 rods. While its often difficult for some to use more than three rods for carp, a fourth would make fishing more fun. While waiting for the carp to arrive a fisherman could cast for bass, pan fish etc. to pass the time. In short, 4 rods means, more out of state fisherman visiting, a bump for tackle shop sales, and makes Ct a "destination" for specimen anglers from all over New England.

Bank space is always a concern, whether using 2 rods or 4. Most fisherman follow common sense and only use the appropriate space needed. I don't believe that opening the rules up to 4 rods would change this. As bank fisherman, we need to have our rods close together in order to properly fish the area targeted. Carp fishing most often includes what we call a "rod pod" which is essentially one of the most sophisticated rod holders available. All rods sit on the pod which takes up no more than 4 feet of bank space.
I agree with the proposal that when using 4 rods no fisherman shall take up more than 20 ft of bank space…

Angler 2.

The 4 rod proposal is a HUGE topic for bank fisherman. While I target only carp, having the opportunity to present 3 or 4 different baits makes a HUGE difference. If I am to spend 30+ hours on the bank to catch 1 or 2 30+lb fish I need all the advantages I can get. Carp fishing is 100% catch and release by specimen fisherman and 90% of the sport is concentrated on fish care. The euro style of fishing for carp is pretty advanced using alarms and pagers to know when a fish is hooked, all rods need to be close and able to reach in a matter of seconds.

Understandably there will be concerns of people not using common sense and taking up more bank-space than necessary, but that happens anyway, always has always will. Out of the THOUSANDS of hours I've spent on the water, I've maybe seen it cause a problem 1 time and once it was pointed out, the fisherman reset his lines as to not cause problems.

This proposal changes nothing with creel limits or any of the other laws allready in place.

Angeler 3.

… Ct is a GREAT STATE for carp fishing.
Many carp guys TRAVEL. A rod increase would DEF. help with out-of-staters fishing Ct thereby increasing license sales.
To have a couple extra lines in the water is HUGE! Even to be able to cast a pan-fish line while some baits are soaking for carp or catfish can often make a trip to the water that much more enjoyable.

Angler 4.

I fish for carp and the action can be very slow. ….. Because of the style of fishing, 4 rods would greatly improve my odds and give me more hope during those slow days.
Carp fishing is similar to trapping: you scout and bait an area and set up your rods in 1 location and wait for the fish to show up. You never know if the fish will be there, how deep they will be, or what they will hit. I usually leave my rods in for 30 minutes to an hour before checking my bait, which doesn't give me many casts to experiment and figure out a pattern. If I can use 4 rods that means I can try 4 different depths and 4 different baits, which will allow me to figure out a pattern much quicker.
It's all about covering more water and improving your odds. Take a look at professional bass fisherman: they often have 4 or more rods rigged up with different baits, and they can use their boat and electronics to scout large areas with a variety of different depths and cover. They only use 1 rod at a time but have the ability to cover way more water and experiment a lot more than a carp fisherman can.
Using 4 rods will improve our odds and make fishing more enjoyable. I think if this law is passed it will also help boost the popularity of fishing in CT. I've spoken to several out of state carp fisherman that have said they would buy a license and fish in CT if they could use 4 rods.
It will also be good for beginners because carp fishing is tough and if beginners can use 4 rods they are twice as likely to hook up with a fish.

Angler 4.

Down here in Jersey we are allowed to use 3 rods. Using 4-rods would be a great benefit to my carp fishing.
I haven't had any problems with other people regarding the number of lines in the water. The only problem I've had is feisty carp swimming across my other lines tangling them up, but that happens with 2 rods also. I don't see any big negatives to having extra lines.
For the most part people who will be using 4 rods understand fishing etiquette and the guys that cause problems by putting out way too many lines are already doing so illegally.

Angler 5.

I am an out of state carp angler. I live near Boston, MA. Whenever I can get a few days of vacations, I often take my car and drive somewhere in neighboring states and try to find carp, exploring and scouting multiple spots. I spent a lot of time in NYS and in Quebec. I never really did it in CT, but I know I should as fantastic fish have been caught by CT anglers in that beautiful state.

Allowing 4-rods would send me to CT right away, multiple times a year! Why? Because it is just so much more effective and enjoyable to explore new spots using more than 2 rods. Carp fishing tends to be slow and difficult, and this is even harder when you explore new venues. Having the opportunity to use multiple rods allows to test multiple distances, multiple bait, multiple rigs, etc. This makes carp fishing so much more enjoyable.

Also, I'm an expatriate from Europe (France), and carp fishing is BIG in Europe. And 4 rods is the norm out there. And European carp anglers would just love to find a very scenic east coast state in the US where they could spend vacations, spend their money and enjoy carp fishing as they are used to.

So... It's not only about making local anglers more happy, I genuinely believe this proposal has a significant economical value for the state of CT (fishing licenses and more).

Angler 6.
A 4-rod option would make for better cat fishing. I could fish different depths of water at the same time and use different baits in search of the fish.
Crowded shore-lines has been raised as an issue on CT shorelines. Limiting shore-line access to 20-feet per angler when using more than 2-rods would solve the issue and take up less shore-line than most “2-line” fisherman use. Also, on fast moving waters multiple lines would regulate themselves, since a current would tangle multiple lines.


C. State “Rod/Line” Conventions: The "WHY?" of line conventions

The “question” begs an answer: Why are 1,2, 3,4, or unlimited “line” conventions adopted by any given state? Are the conventions misguided by an undefined and/or uninformed notion of “sportsmanship”? Are the conventions motivated by “imitation”? Is it avoidance of inter-state competition? Is it “that’s the way it has always been”? (PA states that the “2-line” has been on the books since 1930 and no one can explain, why “2-lines”?)

In the words of a high-ranking CT Department of Natural Resources, official, “…the 2-line” convention is just that, a “convention”. In support of that statement, I have spoken to a number of state fishery departments and have yet to learn the rational for “line” conventions; no one could provide an answer to “WHY?”.


A review of “line” conventions set forth below, demonstrates a pattern of “geographic-convention-imitation” and begs for an answer to “WHY?”. As stated in the Executive Summary: “Why do CT and MA have a “2-line” restriction” and FL, LA and TX have no “line” limitation?”

.
State Line Regulation Summary:

• 1 rod MN but lake specific,

• 2-rods CT, GA (some qualifications), IL- (3-pole trolling), IA, , MA, ME NE, NH, NY (Changing to 3), ND, OH, PA(changing to 3), RI,VT

• 3-rods IN, , KS-$6.50 3rd pole permit , NJ , NY reg change in process, WI (3-lines/lures)

• No limit specified AL, AR, DE, FL, KY, LA, MD, MS, MI, MO-label rods if more than 3-must be attended, MT, NC, OK, SD, TN, TX, WA-( You may not Fish with a rod not under your immediate control or leave your gear unattended), WV, WY

• Two Pole Stamp AZ- $6, CA- $13(?), CO-$5, ID-$13.75, NV $10, NM-$4, OR-$17, UT $5(?)

• North Carolina Not more than 2 of these devices may be used by any fisherman at the same time, except when fishing in a boat.


For now the “WHY” is unanswered and to that I raise the question, “Why not a “4-line” option?”

A “4-line” option would enhance the angling experience of many fisherman and attract angling / tourism dollars to CT’s beautiful fresh waters. Additionally, the implementation of, “When using more than 2 rods, no one angler may occupy more than 20' of shoreline “, improves issues concerning angler etiquette.








Addendum A: State “ROD/Line” Conventions


AL Summary as it relates to MRS ( http://pub.jfgriffin.com/doc/jfgriffin/09ALAB)

• No restriction on amount of rods

Alaska http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/Statewide/regulations/Statewideregs.cfm
• Sport fishing gear: Unless provided in 5 AAC 75.020 -- 5 AAC 75.049 (area-specific regulations), or by the area regulations in 5 AAC 46 -- 5 AAC 70, sport fishing may only be conducted by the use of a single line having attached to it not more than one plug, spoon, spinner, or series of spinners, or two flies, or two hooks. The line must be closely attended.
• Freshwater sport fishing: (1) A person may not take fish in fresh water with (a) a fixed or weighted hooks and lures (except those of standard manufacture), (b) multiple hooks with gap between point and shank larger than 1/2 inch, unless permitted in the area regulations in the Arctic-Yukon-Kuskokwim area, (c) spear, unless permitted by the area regulations, or (d) arrow, unless permitted by the area regulations.
• Appears there are other provincial rules that may be additive, but in general there appears to be no restriction for the use of more than one rod.

Arizona
• Fish & Game Department
2222 West Greenway Road
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4312
(602) 942-3000

http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/regulations/FishingRegulations.pdf
• Two Pole Stamp The $6 two-pole stamp is an optional stamp that validates
a valid fishing license for simultaneous fishing that is the taking of fish by no
more than two lines (poles) and not to exceed two hooks or two artificial
lures or flies per line.


Arkansas
• Game & Fish Commission
#2 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, AR 72205
(501) 223-6300
http://www.agfc.com/fishing/Pages/default.aspx
• Appears to be no limitation on number of “rod” use.
California
• Department of Fish & Game
1416 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
(916) 653-7664
Second Rod Validation $13.53 Allows an angler to fish with two rods or lines in inland waters, except for waters in which only artificial lures or barbless hooks may be used.



Colorado

• LEGALMETHODS OF TAKE
1. ONE PERSONALLY ATTENDED LINE — Each line shall have only 3 common hooks
attached.

• 4. SECOND ROD STAMP—Anglers can use a second rod, handline or tip up by purchasing a
second rod stamp.Anglers can buy only 1 second rod stamp per season.
(a) Second rod stamps are nontransferable.
(b)Asecond rod stamp is not required when only using trotlines or jugs.

• K. "Personally attended line" means a rod and line, hand line, or tip up that is used for fishing and which is under the personal control of a person who is in proximity to it

2nd Rod Stamp (Available to licensed residents, licensed nonresidents and youth under 16 years, licensed or unlicensed.) Res $5.00 Non-Res $5.00
DELAWARE
Dept. of Natural Resources & Environmental Control
89 Kings Highway, PO Box 1401
Dover, DE 19901
(302) 739-4403
http://www.fw.delaware.gov/Fisheries/Documents/2010%20Delaware%20Fishing%20Guide.pdf
• Appears to be no limitation on number of “rod” use.
Florida
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
Farris Bryant Building
620 South Meridian Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1600
(850) 488-4676 Fax: (850) 488-1961
http://www.fwc.state.fl.us/docs/Freshwater/09FLFW-regs.pdf

• Methods of taking freshwater fish
Game fish and nongame fish may be taken with pole and line or rod and reel. There is no limit on the number of rods an angler may use.
GEORGIA
Dept. of Natural Resources
East Towers, Suite 1252
205 Butler Street SE.
Atlanta, GA 30334
(404) 656-3500
http://www.georgiawildlife.com/sites/def...gulations_1.pdf

• There is no restriction on the number of poles and lines used to fish for game fish
except:
– Fishing for trout: 1 pole
– Fishing on Public Fishing Areas: 2 poles
– Sport shad fishing: 2 poles
• Anglers using more than two poles and
• lines to fish for shad must abide by commercial regs


IDAHO
Dept. of Fish & Game
PO Box 25
Boise, ID 83707
(208) 334-3700
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/fish/rules/full_booklet.pdf

• Two-Pole Validation: A person who has a valid resident or
nonresident fishing license may purchase a two-pole validation.
This validation authorizes the license holder to use two poles or
rods at the same time on waters and during seasons specified
by Commission Rule. Valid for all fish including salmon and
steelhead.
Two-Pole Permit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.75



ILLINOIS
Dept. of Natural Resources
One Natural Resources Way
Springfield, IL 62702-1271
(217) 782-6302
http://dnr.state.il.us/fish/digest/2010%20Fishing%20Guide.pdf
• (Resident sport fishing; annual . . . . . . . . . $15.00
Resident sport fish;
• 65 years old and over . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $7.75
• A 2 POLE AND LINE FISHING ONLY regulation permits the angler to
take fish with no more than 2 poles with no more than 2 hooks or lures per line.
• Trolling is permissible, provided the angler has not more than three poles and lines with not more than two hooks or lures on each.

INDIANA
Department of Natural Resources
402 West Washington Street, Room 160
Indianapolis, IN 46204-2748
(317) 232-4200
http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-2010FG.pdf

• Annual Fishing License $17

• Fish with up to three poles or hand lines at one time. Each line is limited to no more than two single or multi-barbed hooks, two artificial baits or two live bait harnesses.


IOWA
Department of Natural Resources
East Ninth & Grand Avenue
Wallace Building
Des Moines, IA 50319-0034
(515) 281-5145
http://www.iowadnr.gov/law/regs/regs_fish.pdf

• Resident Fishing : Annual 16 years old and older $17.50
Trout Fee $11.00, Lifetime (65 years old and older) $51.00

• When fishing by hook and line you cannot use more than two lines or more than two hooks on each line when still fishing or trolling.

KANSAS
Dept. of Wildlife & Parks
900 Jackson Street, Suite 502
Topeka, KS 66612-1220
(913) 296-2281

• Annual Fishing License -$20.50 Resident, $42.50 Nonresident
• Three-pole Permit $6.50 Resident/Nonresident
• Trout Permit (required if 16 and older) $12.50 Resident/Nonresident
• LEGAL EQUIPMENT
Each angler is limited to two rods (three
with three-pole permit) with no more than two
baited hooks (single or treble) or artificial
lures per line.



KENTUCKY
Dept. of Fish & Wildlife Res.
#1 Game Farm Road
Frakfort, KY 40601
(502) 564-3400
http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/2010fishguidefishingregs.pdf

• Annual Fishing License -$20, Trout Stamp-$10
• Appears no limit on number of “rods”
• Kentucky residents 65 years of age
and older who present proof of age and
residency are eligible to purchase the
discounted $5 Senior Combination


LOUISIANA
Dept. of Wildlife & Fisheries
PO Box 98000
Baton Rouge, LA 70898-9000
(504) 765-2800
http://www.wlf.state.la.us/fishing/recreational-fishing

• Basic Fishing $9.50
• Saltwater License (Basic Fishing required) $5.50
• Senior Fish/Hunt 1 $5.00

MAINE
Dept. of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife
284 State Street, Station #41
Augusta, ME 04333
(207) 287-2766

• Resident Fishing (16 and older) - $25.00
• Appears no “rod” limitation

MARYLAND
Department of Natural Resources
580 Taylor Avenue
Annapolis, MD 21401
(410) 260-8100

• Resident $20.50
• Appears no “rod” limitation

Massachusetts Fishing
Dept. of Fisheries, Wildlife
& Environmental Law Enforcement
100 Cambridge Street, Room 1901
Boston, MA 02202
(617) 724-1614
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/

• Resident Citizen/Alien Fishing** $27.50
• Resident Citizen Minor Fishing (Age 15-17) $11.50
• Resident Citizen Fishing Age (Age 65-69) $16.25
• Resident Citizen Fishing (Age 70 or over, or paraplegic, blind, mentally retarded) free
• More than two hooks (TWO ROD LIMIT) for fishing or more than five hooks when ice fishing. A hook is defined as an angling device attached to a fishing line which is designed to take one fish at a time but is not limited to devices commonly called spinners, spoons, bait harnesses, lead head jigs or plugs.

MICHIGAN
Department of Natural Resources
Box 30257
Lansing, MI 48909
(517) 373-9900 or 373-1270
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/
• All Species: $28.00, Senior $11.20
• Appears no limit on “lines/rods” except for bordering waters with Indiana and Wisconsin

MINNESOTA
Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road
St. Paul, MN 55155-4040
(651) 296-6157
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/fishing/fishing2010.pdf
RES ID
o Anglers may use only one line during the open water season

ENT LICENSES (for fishing the license is valid March 2010 – April 30, 2011)
o Angling, Individual (age 16 and older) $17.00
o Angling, Conservation Individual (1/2 limit) 11.00
o Trout and Salmon Stamp Validation (see page 6) 10.00
o Walleye Stamp Validation (Voluntary) (See page 6) 5.00


MISSISSIPPI
Dept. of Wildlife, Fisheries & Parks
2906 North 8th Street, PO Box 451
Jackson, MS 39205
(601) 362-9212
http://home.mdwfp.com/

o All Game Hunting/Freshwater Fishing (Does not include Archery/Primitive Weapon, General Crossbow, Fall Turkey Permit, WMA User Permit or Waterfowl Stamp. Senior Exempt Lifetime***
o Appears no limit to number of “rods”


Missouri
Department of Natural Resources
PO Box 176
Jefferson City, MO 65102
(800) 334-6946
http://www.dnr.state.mo.us/

If more than 3-poles are used the poles must be labeled with full name and address. Max of 33-hooks. Poles must be attended every 24-hrs. Mississippi River has slightly different regs.

Montana
MT Fish, Wildlife & Parks
1420 East 6th Avenue
PO Box 200701
Helena, MT 59620-0701
406-444-2535
FAX: 406-444-4952

Could not find any restrictions on number of poles.

Regs do not recommend “fizzing” for deep water fish bladder issues, due to the risk of infection. Recommend tying the eye of a hook to a weight, flattening the barb and tying a 50 ft line to the hook “bend”. Hook the fish in the bottom lip and lower into the water.


Nebraska
Nebraska Game and Parks Commission
2200 N. 33rd St.
Lincoln, NE 68503-0370 –
Ph. (402) 471-0641

Anglers are limited to no more than two lines, with a
maximum of two hooks on each line, with these being any type of attached line (rod
and reel or fishing pole) on all lakes, ponds or reservoirs or in their inlets, outlets and canals within one-half mile of these bodies of water, with the exception of ice-fishing
line limits.


Nevada

Second rod stamp= $10

New Hampshire

2-rod limit


New Jersey

When fishing from shoreline no more than 3-fishing rods. Could not find any limitation on rods when fishing from a boat. Would appreciate any info to the contrary.

New Mexico

Department of Game and Fish
Main Office
Department of Game and Fish
PO Box 25112, Santa Fe, NM 87504
1 Wildlife Way, Santa Fe, NM 87507

1-rod. 2nd rod validation permit cost $4.

New York
Bureau of Fisheries
625 Broadway
Albany, NY 12233-4753
518-402-8924
An angler may operate no more than two lines with or without a rod, and each line is limited to not more than five lures or baits or a combination of both, and in addition, each line shall not exceed fifteen hook points in any combination of single, double or treble hooks. Snatching, lifting, hooking and use of tip-ups are not angling.


North Carolina
Does not appear to limit the number or rods
North Dakota
Specific Regulations/Definitions
Legal hook and line equipment for each angler is two poles statewide except:
• One pole only is legal at:
o Garrison Dam Tailrace - while fishing from the piers and wingwalls.
o Drayton Dam - while shore fishing between boat ramp and area - designated "closed to fishing."
• Four poles are legal while ice fishing.
- Note: When fishing a water body where both open water and ice fishing occur at the same time, an angler is allowed a maximum of four poles of which no more than two poles can be used in open water

Ohio
Anglers may not use more than two fishing lines,
whether fastened to a pole, a rod and reel, or hand held.


Oklahoma
Appear to be no limitation

Oregon
The ODFW just updated their website with the new 2010 fishing regulations. Great news for anglers in Oregon, for a small fee ($17) you can now use 2 rods on most lakes!

Pennsylvania
Unlawful to fish with more than two fishing lines at any
time when fishing for game fish, baitfish or both.

Rhode Island
(www.dem.ri.gov/pubs/regs/index.htm#FandW), 4808 Tower Hill Road, Wakefield, RI 02879, 401-789-3094 or 401-222-3075

Could not find a restriction on rods, but the available info is not user friendly.
South Carolina

Game fish may be caught with only hook and line, fly rod, casting rod, pole and line
or hand line. Not more than 2 of these devices may be used by any fisherman at the same time, except when fishing in a boat. An unlimited number of lawful fishing devices may be used if every boat occupant (who would normally be required to have a fishing
license) possesses a valid fishing license.
• Bows and arrows for taking nongame fish only and


South Dakota
Could not find a restriction on “number of rods”

(Unattended Lines: Each line used must be under the direct
supervision and within the unaided observation of the legal user at all times.)



Tennessee
Ellington Agricultural Center
P. O. Box 40747
Nashville, TN 37204................ 615-781-6500

Pole or Rod Limit: There is no limit on the number of poles, with some exceptions for specific waters.

Texas
Could not find a restriction on “number of rods”


Utah
If you have a valid Utah second-pole permit, and a valid fishing or combination license, you can fish with two poles at any water in the state during its open fishing season.


Vermont
Not more than 2-lines

Virginia
As a general rule appears to be no restriction on “number of rods”

Washington
600 Capitol Way N
Olympia, WA
98501-1091

You may not Fish with a rod not under your immediate control.
or leave your gear unattended. No mention on “number of rods”.


West Virginia
No mention of “rod Limitation”

Wisconsin
It is illegal to fish with more than three hooks, baits, or lures.
• to take fish by any means other than hook and line unless

Wyoming

No mention of “rod Limitation”









Edited by Tony Mel (12/08/11 09:36 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
Top
#1344703 - 08/21/11 10:21 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
elcapitanmas Offline

Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2961
tony, you may want to add this info to the white paper. Just passed the 3 rod rule in NY on the 16th

3 rod rule
Top
#1350358 - 09/13/11 12:23 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: elcapitanmas]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Since I have been going flat-out since the Sept 8th FAC meeting this is a late report on my perceptions of the meeting re 4-rod:

Steve Clowe(?) accompanied me and set up a nice display for carp fisherman. Thanks Steve.


In a meet and greet session before the meeting, many compliments were received on the white paper. Bob Crook, CAC and Peter Aarestad, DEP, important players in the process, were very complementary. However, prior to the meeting via a phone call with the FAC Chairman and during the meet and greet session I felt a strong resistance to change.

The FAC Chairman is a traditionalist fly fisherman and my read is that he harbors preconceive notations that a sportsman's use of 4-rod will "rape and pillage" the trout fishery. Reminds me of the old reactionist adage, if "man was meant to fly, God would have given him wings".

Therefore, early on in my presentation, I set out to meet the "rape and pillage" misperception/objection to a "4-rod option" by emphasizing:
- the sportsmen's skill aspects of figuring out the puzzle,
-the reverence that sportsmen share for their prey
-and conveying that the primary interest was catch and release, not putting meat on the table.

I modified the request to include that if a "4-rod option" were to be elected in CT that the fisherman would have to release the fish (or have the creel limit reduced).

I believe, the "catch and release" modification under-cut any significant objections from the advisory committee, except for one influential member (Weiss I think) who said, he wouldn't troll with more than 2-rods because he would tangle them-to that weak comment, Crook jokingly told me later, "Welcome to the legislative process" lol.

Be that as it may, The FAC Chairman cut me short and ordered me to give the floor to the CARP fisherman who was supposed to be there for a Q & A session. There were very little Q & A time. Crook and Mitch voiced support and the Chairman cut discussion short with a negative statement like, " I have my reservations, I can envision 10 to 20-mortally, injured, fish released by 4-rod.

The proposal is tabled to a Dec FAC meeting and the Chairman said, any change would have to wait for FAC's recommendations for 2013 reg change proposals.

The 2013 waiting period is a change as to what I understood from Aarestad, since his position was that the FAC was an advisory committee and the DEP could make a decision earlier.

After my presentation there was a break and I met with Arrested and Crook. I shared my offended feeling from the Chairman, by saying that, "I got cut short from the "bully-pulpit", not by any rational and open discussion".

Aarrestad, who is great guy, shared that he and Hyatt were new in their jobs and he would visit with Hyatt as to how to proceed. I am sympathetic to the political necessities dictated by the bureaucratized environment. The FAC Chairman, has built a powerful position by holding the seat for years and I detect the "tail will wag the dog" on this due to one dogmatic position set against the enjoyment of many sportsmen.

Aarestad suggested that I wage a PR campaign on the CTF, I told him that the productivity return on a CTF grass roots effort, has run its course.
Crook said he could help me move through different channels, but I am not about too do it on my own.

Bottom-line, I think carp fisherman have a good chance of getting a 4-rod option, maybe this year, since it will not violate FAC trout dogmatic, sensitivities . All other fisherman's interest will get tabled and committeed to death by FAC.

Eventually we will all get a 3-rod option because, we have alerted the CT powers that "line limitation" change is on the way. Since NJ and NY have changed to 3-rod, I project CT will change through the regulatory process of "regional imitation".

Again, these are only my perceptions and read of the situation. I would welcome any other comments and perceptions by the many CTFers who were at the meeting.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Your contributions, pro and/or con, were represented in the white paper and at the meeting.


Edited by Tony Mel (09/13/11 05:59 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1350361 - 09/13/11 12:25 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mitch P. Offline



Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 22484
Nice job at the meeting Tony. I haven't had chance to post myself about it yet.

Nice to see you get behind something fishing-related and take action. If more fishermen did this, we'd be in better shape on a lot of levels. Good luck with everything.
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#1350372 - 09/13/11 12:45 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
firehawk Offline

Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 584
Great job, although it sounds like the usual bureaucratic nonsense that makes most of us avoid meetings like that - like the plague.

I had a zoming board meeting a month ago and I still have the hives.....

Until people who are passionate about the 'entire' fishery experience are in positions of power - we will always get fractionalized biased results when trying to invoke change.

I applaud you for the work you have done - I would have probably said something that shouldn't have been said if I was at the meeting instead... LOL


Edited by firehawk (09/13/11 12:46 PM)
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#1350524 - 09/13/11 11:19 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
mikek06511 Offline

Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 8979


Tony making his points while Steve looks on.


Now Tony I am once again going to remind you that the FAC is an ADVISORY group not a legislative, rule making one.
That is left to DEEP and the legislatures along with the AG and a few others depending on what is being considered.
As I told Steve it is a very long,slow process. Something I found out about while working on the personal use menhaden regs.

As for Vin I can only tell you that most of these folks are at countless meetings throughout the week and some of them can run very long and this is after a full day at their job. All he really wanted to do was to move the meeting along and try to get everyone home at a reasonable hour. He is a stand up guy and when Pete first brought up the subject of your proposal it was Vin that asked to have you come to the meeting and present it yourself and I believe he also stated that it will be part of the next meetings agenda so that it can be discussed further and you should have a chance to make the case to anyone that has reservations about the whole idea.

So don't lose faith in the system just yet but give it a chance to run it's course and unfortunately you have to be very patient too.

Good to meet you and Steve and I'll see you at the next one.
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#1350527 - 09/13/11 11:27 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mitch P. Offline



Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 22484
Well said Mike.
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#1350561 - 09/14/11 08:03 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: mikek06511]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: mikek06511


So don't lose faith in the system just yet but give it a chance to run it's course and unfortunately you have to be very patient too.



Mike, Thanks for your assessment and counsel. Nice to meet you.


Edited by Tony Mel (09/14/11 08:18 AM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1350731 - 09/14/11 05:50 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
poolpaul Offline

Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 141
i am not all for the 3 or 4 rod lic. but i can see how it would be a good thing and i think the best way to say you could use more than 2 rods on a body od water and not hurt the fishing and still have a good time (landing fish or not)and not all on top of each other ...........it should be set so you cant use more than 2 rods on a lake that has to be so XXX big or have XXX of shoreline for fishing ...... i just think there are a lot of good ponds and streems that this could hurt
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#1371271 - 12/02/11 04:54 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
The 4-rod proposal is on the agenda for discussion at the December FAC Meeting. My understanding is that there will be a multirod reg change packaged into a revamp of reg changes to take effect in 2013. How many rods and any type of restricitions are open details.

My understanding is that the meeting is open. If you want to provide input, you may have a chance to give it at the meeting or during meet & greet sessions.

Time Place follow:

Quarterly FAC Meeting
December 8, 2011
6:30 PM to 9:00 PM
Department of Energy & Environmental Protection
Dinosaur State Park
400 West Street
Rocky Hill, CT 06067

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1372898 - 12/07/11 02:15 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Mitch P. Offline



Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 22484
Tony, I can't attend tomorrow night's meeting. But, mikek06511 may be there. Good luck in your multi-rod mission.
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#1373058 - 12/07/11 08:00 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
buckcall Offline

Member

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 7701
Would this be concidered one or four?


Edited by buck-call (12/07/11 08:01 PM)

Sheetrock and painting call Dave 203-464-2967

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Theodore Roosevelt
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#1373162 - 12/08/11 08:37 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
elcapitanmas Offline

Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2961
those things are what nightmares are made of lol.

I believe someone from the carp camp will be at the meeting tonight.
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#1373201 - 12/08/11 10:14 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
mikek06511 Offline

Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 8979
Tony please bear in mind that time is limited. It might be best to respond to questions and concerns.
The multiple rods is in with other legislative business.
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#1373219 - 12/08/11 11:00 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: mikek06511]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: mikek06511
Tony please bear in mind that time is limited. It might be best to respond to questions and concerns.
The multiple rods is in with other legislative business.


That's my understanding Mike. As I tried to indicate in an earlier post, our opportunity to demonstrate support and provide input will be at the "meet and greet" and Q&A when the proposal is brought up on the agenda.. This proposal is already moving through the DEEP process but the details are not set.

My apology in advance but I would like to move my earlier post re meeting details to the forefront, so i will repost.
Look forward to seeing you tonight.

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
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#1373221 - 12/08/11 11:01 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Originally Posted By: elcapitanmas

I believe someone from the carp camp will be at the meeting tonight.


Ethan, If you know who will be attending please have him/her call me or PM or if you have his/her contact info please PM it to me.

It is important that we work the 3 main points of the White Paper set forth in the 9th post from the top of this 4th thread page. The points are:
1. States set line regs by regional imitation with no underlying rational.
2. "Economic driver" reasons for moving to a 4-rod option.
3. Enhancement to the fishing experiences of skilled sportsmen in the pursuit of freshwater cat, carp and trolling.


At a minimum anyone attending meeting, pro or con, would be well served to be familiar with the White Paper because the 3 main arguments are moving this proposal through the DEEP reg change process.

Anyone attending who wants to meet before the 6:30 PM meeting, please PM me.

Time Place follow:

Quarterly FAC Meeting
December 8, 2011
6:30 PM to 9:00 PM
Department of Energy & Environmental Protection
Dinosaur State Park
400 West Street
Rocky Hill, CT 06067

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
Top
#1373379 - 12/08/11 09:07 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
The FAC Meeting:

Bill Hyatt reported that the DEP staff supports increasing the line limit from 2 to 3 lines for inland fishing. Certain restrictions will be imposed such as only 2-rods for certain trout streams.

The change will be take effect on Jan 1, 2013 when newly developed reg revisions will take effect.

[list]
[*]Iain Sorrell attended as a rep for Carp fisherman. Iain was satisfied with the 3-line option.

[*]mikek06511 was in attendance for CTF. Nice to see you again Mike.

[*]Met Bruce Rich, President of CT Fly Fisherman's Assoc. He will be taking a look at CTF. Interested Fly Fisherman can reach him at www.ctflyfish.org, they are looking for members.


Edited by Tony Mel (12/08/11 09:08 PM)

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
Top
#1373389 - 12/08/11 10:17 PM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
mikek06511 Offline

Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 8979
Nice summary Tony. I'll add more after work tomorrow.
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#1395669 - 02/29/12 09:51 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: mikek06511]
Tony Mel Offline

Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2080
Loc: West Hartford
Received the following email from Peter Aarrested, Director of Inland Fisheries Division:

"We still plan to move forward with the 3-rod proposal as Bill Hyatt indicated at the Dec FAC meeting. It will be part of our new regulations packet that we hope to begin formally developing soon. The topic has been sufficiently discussed at the FAC and I do not believe that further discussion will take place at the March FAC meeting."

Our lakes, rivers and streams are borrowed from our children.

Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
Top
#1395683 - 02/29/12 10:38 AM Re: 4 Rod Initiative-DEP Supportive [Re: Tony Mel]
mikek06511 Offline

Member

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 8979
Tony I will be at the meeting and will let you know if there is anything further.
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