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#1706517 - 02/02/17 04:38 PM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
Such a hard thing - studies result in statistics - statistics can be manipulated, misrepresented or simply falsified all to make a point, but at the same time objective science is all you have to credibly base a decision.

Personally I find it hard to believe that lead fishing weights that have been used for over a hundred years are suddenly impacting birds adversely, but I'm open to being shown otherwise. In the meantime I've sent my letters to the local reps in Hartford & suggest everyone else do the same.
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#1706534 - 02/02/17 07:21 PM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
Don P Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 18946
Loc: CLINTON, CT
"Statistics are like a bikini, what they show is revealing, but what they hide is crucial."

I used that in one of my Biology Statistics lab reports in college. My T.A. also found it amusing and graded me accordingly.

You can definitely spin stats however you want the story told.

I too am a man of science, I'm open to hearing the science, but just doesn't make sense to me at this point.
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#1706590 - 02/03/17 09:00 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/cgafindleg.asp

For anyone interested in saying something but not sure where to start - that's the link to the state's website to ID who your representative is and how to contact them.
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#1706593 - 02/03/17 09:15 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
Tod Osier Offline

Member

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1587
Loc: Newtown, CT
Originally Posted By: Don P


Even if a diving bird eats a split shot, it just craps it out and any of the minimal amount of lead that gets into its blood stream quickly gets diluted and washed out of its system.

This is the same reasoning they banned lead shot while waterfowl hunting. The only lead that kills birds is from lead shot fired from a shotgun....which has already been banned.



Just to keep it real Don, the mechanism for lead shot is the same as sinkers. Birds INGEST the shot, it is ground in the gizzard, and the finely ground lead slurry is now absorbed. Looks like your avian digestion physiology is as good as your duck identification skills wink2.

#nonsense only if you don't understand what you are talking about.


`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`
Tod Osier on Instagram
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#1706597 - 02/03/17 09:35 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
Still haven't seen a bird that can ingest a 4/0 bass jig and live to be poisoned by the lead before the hook kills him, or TroutTracker's 10lb downrigger.


I'm not contesting the physiology of HOW a bird could ingest, absorb & ultimately be poisoned by lead - I just want to see the science to show that it's actually occurring on a large enough scale to be an issue.
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#1706598 - 02/03/17 09:45 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: onthewater102]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: onthewater102
I just want to see the science to show that it's actually occurring on a large enough scale to be an issue.


There is plenty of science backing up the toxicity pathway to loons on inland lakes gobbling up tiny split shots. My daughter worked on this all last summer.

As far as I know. there is no science that shows a toxicity pathway in the marine environment.

I believe we have seen this bill before in the CT Legislature.

I'm very doubtful it has any legs. . . . . . however. People should contact their legislator. It NEVER hurts.

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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#1706599 - 02/03/17 10:00 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
The Tufts Veterinary School has a decent Web Page on the issue with the Loons.

A lead toxicity pathway for loons in lake environments does exist. There is no pathway in marine environments.

There are dozens of factors that break the pathway

Hot Link - Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine. Web Page on Loons.







""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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#1706606 - 02/03/17 11:11 AM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
Here we see facts misrepresented, likely to drive hyperbole:

Granted, even a 25% toxicosis rate is sufficient to warrant action - why blow the issue out of proportion by including "suspected" cases with verified cases in the final reporting?



Same report gives us a more practical solution - limit the use of lead in terminal tackle less than an inch wide in any dimension. Done. Easy. Landing us at a point that is a far cry from 100% lead ban - but an appropriate measure to address the real problem.
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#1706626 - 02/03/17 02:03 PM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Tod Osier]
Don P Offline

Member

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 18946
Loc: CLINTON, CT
Originally Posted By: Tod Osier
Originally Posted By: Don P


Even if a diving bird eats a split shot, it just craps it out and any of the minimal amount of lead that gets into its blood stream quickly gets diluted and washed out of its system.

This is the same reasoning they banned lead shot while waterfowl hunting. The only lead that kills birds is from lead shot fired from a shotgun....which has already been banned.



Just to keep it real Don, the mechanism for lead shot is the same as sinkers. Birds INGEST the shot, it is ground in the gizzard, and the finely ground lead slurry is now absorbed. Looks like your avian digestion physiology is as good as your duck identification skills wink2.

#nonsense only if you don't understand what you are talking about.



I have inhaled lead fumes since I was probably 7 years old pouring sinkers with my Dad, and since about 3 years old biting split shot as I fished and handling lead bank sinkers. I think we can ALL AGREE there are no ascertainable negative side effects of inhaling and ingesting lead in my case. #CaseClosed!
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#1706627 - 02/03/17 02:42 PM Re: CT General Assembly January 2017 proposition to BAN the USE, mfc and sale of fishing tackle containing LEAD! [Re: Don P]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: Don P
I have inhaled lead fumes since I was probably 7 years old pouring sinkers with my Dad, and since about 3 years old biting split shot as I fished and handling lead bank sinkers. I think we can ALL AGREE there are no ascertainable negative side effects of inhaling and ingesting lead in my case. #CaseClosed!

rolleyes biggrin

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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