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#1760163 - 02/14/19 10:14 PM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
O-BASS Offline

Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 20124
I would never tell a corporation that they can't make any more money.

Amazon has a right to build their facilities where it wants, the same way the locals have a right 2 question the actual cost benefits of a company like that moving in.

It came down to Greed though, where they didn't get the breaks that they wanted, and the locals wanted to hold them accountable for more than that, so I have read.

The rules are the rules, and the terms are allowed to be negotiated for businesses both big and small. It didn't work out for Amazon in New York, and Greed was the factor- Amazon is looking for major tax incentives, and they're not going to get that in Connecticut from what I can tell.

A fair deal for both parties always works best. We can use a company like that in Connecticut, someone who's willing to meet the state on even terms and clear expectations. Sounds like things got way out of hand in the negotiation and meeting processes recently.

Look at the nonsensical deal that Trump touted as being amazing bring in tons of jobs from that foreign company, which, As We now see and we all knew in advance, was never going to happen. Sure enough they made an announcement the other day suggesting the amount of jobs they were going to bring in wasn't nearly what they had said originally. I'm sure they still get the tax bonuses, the land incentives, and all the good stuff on their end, it's just the locals who are expecting those jobs, the state economy expecting the tax revenue, and all the surrounding businesses that would have benefited from The increased job market that suffer.

Deception and greed usually walk down the same path.



Edited by O-BASS (02/14/19 10:15 PM)
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#1760170 - 02/15/19 07:21 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
CWood Man Online   content

Stop Bitchin' And Get Fishin'!

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 22638
Loc: Villas NJ
No big corps will move to CT, they are moving out because of our taxes.



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SURELY MISS MY CTF FRIENDS BUT ALWAYS WILL BE HERE TO GIVE ALL A HARD TIME!

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#1760171 - 02/15/19 07:59 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: O-BASS]
Mycept Offline

Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 8360
Originally Posted By: O-BASS
I would never tell a corporation that they can't make any more money.

Amazon has a right to build their facilities where it wants, the same way the locals have a right 2 question the actual cost benefits of a company like that moving in.

It came down to Greed though, where they didn't get the breaks that they wanted, and the locals wanted to hold them accountable for more than that, so I have read.

The rules are the rules, and the terms are allowed to be negotiated for businesses both big and small. It didn't work out for Amazon in New York, and Greed was the factor- Amazon is looking for major tax incentives, and they're not going to get that in Connecticut from what I can tell.

A fair deal for both parties always works best. We can use a company like that in Connecticut, someone who's willing to meet the state on even terms and clear expectations. Sounds like things got way out of hand in the negotiation and meeting processes recently.

Look at the nonsensical deal that Trump touted as being amazing bring in tons of jobs from that foreign company, which, As We now see and we all knew in advance, was never going to happen. Sure enough they made an announcement the other day suggesting the amount of jobs they were going to bring in wasn't nearly what they had said originally. I'm sure they still get the tax bonuses, the land incentives, and all the good stuff on their end, it's just the locals who are expecting those jobs, the state economy expecting the tax revenue, and all the surrounding businesses that would have benefited from The increased job market that suffer.

Deception and greed usually walk down the same path.




What nonsensical deal are you referring to?

Amazon was getting 3B in tax incentives - 3B. COuple that with the fact that they are paying 0 dollars in federal income taxes for the 2nd year in a row.

I don't think Amazon wanted to be anywhere except for the northeast/midatlantic and they used the entire process to get all of the other states to make offers that would have to be matched.
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#1760175 - 02/15/19 08:56 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
RayZCT Offline

Member

Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 4105
Loc: Glastonbury, CT
Change the tax laws, don't blame Amazon, blame Congress. Are you bitching because your taxes went down? NY lost out big time. Tax incentives? NY didn't lose any taxes, they didn't have them to begin with. AOC blew this one.


Edited by RayZCT (02/15/19 09:00 AM)

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#1760182 - 02/15/19 09:46 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
How long of a recovery period does it take to recoup $3 billion in handouts to one of the highest grossing/ largest corporations in the world when you're generating 25,000 jobs for your $3 billion...even in NYC where they tax the hell out of everything if you assumed the average wage were an outrageously high figure - say, $250,000/year (which wouldn't happen, the majority of those 25k jobs would have been on the low end of the spectrum, clerical staff, janitorial staff etc.)...but assume the average is $250,000/year for simple math. At a combined state and city tax rate of 10% it would take roughly 5 years just to recover the initial investment through income taxes. Assume further that people spend 15% of their income on taxable sales, you only get that recovery period down to ~4.25 years...just to recover. What's the opportunity cost of blowing $3 billion that you don't start to see a nickle on for 4.25 years??? At a market rate of growth of 8% the states $3 billion would be worth over $4 billion 4 years down the line - so even though they'd just be recovering their initial investment at that point they'd still have another 2 years to go before they stood to out perform the alternative of having done absolutely nothing at all.

6 to 7 years...based on outrageously high average wage assumption for a 25,000 person environment persisting over the entire period. Realistically that recovery period is probably three to four times longer. Much longer when you realize the people touting that 25,000 job figure are likely including every temporary construction job along the way that will only last a fraction of the overall time Amazon would be there. Start taking thousands of bodies out of the equation and you won't recover that investment in a lifetime.

Back to the pie in the sky high assumptions - How much more growth could they spur in a 6 to 7 year timeline with $3 billion today? They replaced the entire Tappan Zee Bridge with TWO LARGER BRIDGES for roughly that much money. Which do you think does more for the regional economy? Infrastructure or heavily lobbied subsidy projects? Hmm...how about in 18 years to 28 years?

Strictly by the #'s I am happy it didn't come to be.
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#1760225 - 02/15/19 08:32 PM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15882
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
OK, how about some facts on Amazon.


The Leftist media, as well as the real far far Left nut jobs, like that wench from the Bronx, AOC, were complaining that NY was to "give" them $3Billion in tax breaks.

It sure sounds like corporate welfare to the uninformed.....right? So horrible, these big corporations taking money from the taxpayers.

Now, back to reality, and why Leftism is destroying this country.

Amazon was to pay $27 BILLION over 10 years in taxes. The $3B over 10 years was a tax incentive to get them to come, a tax break. NY is NOT giving $3Billion to Amazon, it's giving them back money that they are to receive in taxes.

There isn't $3Billion NY has sitting around that they could use for something else.

So, NY now get's NOTHING. No bump for the real estate market, local businesses that would be feeding these people, etc etc...

Tennessee and Virginia will be thrilled to get this business.




Edited by John from Madison CT (02/15/19 08:43 PM)

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#1760265 - 02/16/19 10:39 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mycept]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: Mycept
What nonsensical deal are you referring to?

There are several but I am guessing this one.


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#1760266 - 02/16/19 10:40 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: Mitch P.
I'd take that bet. If they build a facility out of the U.S., day on my boat. If they build in the U.S., day on your boat?

I think I should be invited no matter who wins.

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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#1760344 - 02/17/19 10:44 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
O-BASS Offline

Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 20124
sorry Mycept, Foxconn was the one i believe i read about. 13k jobs expected/promised for the deal, likely will be less. The companies recent statements set up the eventuality that it will be way less.

hope it works out, wont be surprized when it doesnt. Jobs are jobs, and a good thing, but it is a 2 way street in business. I think Amazon would have strongly gotten over the citizens of NY in that deal, based on what I have read.



Edited by O-BASS (02/17/19 10:57 AM)
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#1760351 - 02/17/19 11:29 AM Re: Amazon in CT? [Re: Mitch P.]
onthewater102 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 1649
Loc: Kent, CT
Better shareholder value building large complexes anywhere outside the NYC metro area. Power to them.
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