Tournament Fishing in CT: Act now or sit home and only watch them on TV

The application mailing deadline for the next CBFN tournament is JUNE 30th.

The tournament will be held on July 16 at the CT River, out of Haddam Meadows.

Yes, it seems that we just did this. Remember the last event was suppose to be on Lilly but was moved because the DEP restricted us to 55 boats. This is the original scheduled event for the River.




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Edit: Topic heading changed to reflect the newest discussions on this thread. (Mitch)

Was at the bass Fed meeting last night. We're going to have start speaking out to reverse the trend of the DEP cutting the number of boats allowed. If we let it continue, one day there might not be any tournaments. The CBFN is going to come up with a plan of action.

Mitch,

Great point, We are asking any one and every one that fishes tournaments in the state of Connecticut, does not matter to what organization you belong. It's in all out interest to come together on this one. Please contact your local Representative (see link below). We are loosing more and more rights to our waters.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/hlist.asp

I am not familiar with what the issues are?
Can you give us that only fish CTF tourneys some more information. A form type letter would also be a great idea. It will increase the likely hood of more e mails being sent.

Ramp access - limiting / down sizing the number of boats allowed for each tournament. This is probably the biggest issue. Parking and number of boats allowed on the permit. Example, we had a tournament scheduled for Lake Lillinonah. We requested a permit for 65 boats. The DEP gave us a permit for 55 boats and 40 of those where to use Pond Brook, which if the water had dropped much at all, you would not be able to launch or get your boat out. These type things are happening more and more all over the state. Bashon lake is now restricted to 5 boat tournaments. CT River out of Haddam Meadows we had 63 boats. We had to send 20 boats out of Salmon River. We can’t park in the grass or they will ticket us and revoke our future permits. But when John Q Public did it and the DEP officer at the ramp was asked about it, he said he didn’t care about them. It’s the tournaments with permits that get all the negative attention. Those are some of the many incidents. There are many, many more...

It's not the DEP inland fisheries thats putting the restictions on, primarily it is Boating that causes it, and it is primarily because of PARKING, not boats. As we all know, a tournament can not take up more than half of the parking spots at a launch...long story short, many exemptions have been made...BUT there have been just as many complaints from non-tournament people just wanting to access the launch on the day of the tourney.

Perfect example, this year's CTF Smallmouth tournament...tourney was over and weigh in was going on so some people decided that it would be acceptable to park their trucks and trailers all over the launch, making it impossible for anyone else to lauch. A guy came down a pitched a fit after he waited probably 30 minutes to simply put his boat in. I know for a fact that thet guy called dep and complained...thus another black eye for tournament fishing.

Boating is reallly putting their foot down on this issue because of complaints like this....\


I know this may not be completely relevant to this specific issue but it are situations like his that are creating problems for tourney anglers. WE have to be more considerate of the public, I say we cause I run plenty of tourneys myself....irresponsible behavior by some may ruin it for the rest of us.

Dusty, you are right, it is Boating that is limiting the parking. Some feel that the limits they set for tournies aren't fair or right. But everyone has an opinion on it (tournament fishermen, non-tournament guys, and the average boater). Bottom line, if the trend is toward cutting the number of parking spots, when the size of the lots remains the same (or even gets bigger. i.e, Zoar), then there is an issue in my mind.

Once you let a trend get going in one direction (cutting alloted spots) without doing something about it, before you know it, you're screwed.

With regard to the CTF smallie event on Gardner. I remember the guy you are talking about. I don't know about him waiting 30 minutes, though. Trucks were moved as soon as he spoke up. In hindsight, we probably should have done a better job of directing people where to park right after the event. I think because it was a weekday in early spring, no one expected others out there that day. Thanks for the heads up that he was annoyed enough to call DEP.

We defiantly are not helping our cause with irresponsible behavior at the ramps. We have to police ourselves, make sure we are parking where we are suppose to, etc.. The public will drop a dime (Quarter) on us in a heart beat.

Does any one know how many 50+ boat tournaments are there in the period between Memorial Day and Labor Day???
CBFN (4), Neba (5), CT Outdoors (2).....sorry if I missed some, these are the ones I know of.

So 1 guy crys & gets heard...but We cry & get Sh*t on.....

Keith, you pretty much summed up the problem with many of the issues surrounding fishing.

For too long, most anglers have gone about their merry way simply fishing and enjoying the benefits of the sport. But with those benefits comes a certain responsibility to protect and preserve them.

When it comes to the issues -- whether it's fisheries management, tournaments, regulations, etc. -- we've been a lazy group. We haven't spoken up.

Yea...its a no win situation if you look at it through their perspective....you give touney guys a permit for 50 boats at a POPULAR launch on a Sat, say that launch has 75 spots...there are unquestionably going to be people without places to park...thus they complain...NOT WHAT DEP OR BOATING WANTS.

You give a permit for 30 spots for the tourney...the tourney guys get upset and complain about the ## of boats they can have at their events...also NOT WHAT DEP OR BOATING WANTS

That is why they try and maintian the 50% rule as far as the number of spots that can be taken up for a tournament...it is a fair balance. I have spoken the the folks at DEP at lenght about this very issue and it is very touchy...but overally they are on our side( the tourney guys), but they also have to protect their own A$$es but puting some stricter regs on us.

Personally, I think you have a valid point about the restrictions, but you have to consider that Connecticut has SO MANY people and SO FEW lakes of any size that it creates issues when trying to have 75 boat tourneys and have space for the public...lets face it, were not fishing on Champlain here, space is limited.

I think the biggest thing we can do is like GetR'Done says "We have to police ourselves, make sure we are parking where we are suppose to, etc.." By doing what we are supposed to and following the guidlines we will leave them no choice but to allow us to continue as we have in the past.

By Dusty I don't know if that statement is neccasarily true. These folks in Hartford usually take the path of least resistence, meaning they bend to those that make the most noise. And you can't leave the politics out of their decisions either. If the local Representatives are getting complaints about tournament anglers using up the parking, you can bet that DEP HAS to do something about it.

What really steams me is when a group of ski boats get together for the day, they don't need any type of permit yet a couple of buddies get together in three boats and want to bring a big fish back to the ramp to compare the days catch, this is considered a tournament or "organized event" Aren't the ski boats doing the exact same thing?
Or how about the group of buddies who trailer up 6 or 8 jet skies to go riding together for the day. Isn't that an organized event? Yet they don't need a permit, but, the five boat tournament has to jump through hoops to go fish.

Right on the money Pski!

Speaking of money. It’s us anglers who contribute a hell of a lot of money via our fishing habit. We need to let legislators and others know.

I think there is a stat in the latest BASS Times about how much CT anglers spend. I’ll have to scan it and put it up.

Note: I edited this topic title to reflect where the discussion is now going.

One thing I can think of that we can do is to Police ourselves in regard to parking. I wanted to do a Bashan tourney but was told we could only have 5 boats due to lack of parking. I thought about this and the way I see it and I'm speaking in terms of smaller CTF events and maybe club tourneys also. Being we are all coming and going at the same time I see no reason why we couldn't double up parking by putting one truck in front of the other or if tight parking space placing two trucks sideways in front of three other trucks. I figure parking like that will allow room for 8/9 boats instead of 5 while taking up the same amount of parking space.
I think everyone wins that way more boats for us while still plenty of room for the public.
If anything I think we need to govern ourselves and be consicous of what's going on around us to
make a better public image of Bass tourneys

I can't believe the can't make more parking at HADDAM MEADOWS launch!! Those fields are HUGE!!

Chris, Mitch, Dusty

Its hard to explain but I agree with each of you. Mitch we definatly have to stick up for our rights as fishermen. We pay for that privledge.

Dusty and Chris, I also see your point about being careful of how we handle tournaments. There is some room for improvement.

But my overall feeling is that EVERYONE needs to improve on how they use the water. Too many times while fishing, there have been jet-skis buzzing, and pleasure boats that cut us off. We are not the only ones at fault.

The negative responce is from the people that complain. Do we have to report more issues?? I for one would hate to, but if we are going to be put to issue, than maybe its time we did something about what happens to us.

I don't think the DEP, Boating, or othewise is against us, I just think we don't complain enough. This could be our own fault because we don't want to draw attention to us.

MAYBE ITS TIME WE DID

Jim

I dont know if CT allows you to do this or not. We have a couple lakes our club likes to fish but they have insufficient parking for 18 boats. What we do is find close by alternate parking and shuttle back and forth. It may be a school parking lot or a town lot. Anything not being used during the tourney will suffice.

I don't want anyone think that I am ok with the DEP limiting tourney permits, changing rules so that we cant have the alotted 50% of the parking, etc...cause I don't want to see it as much as any of you.

Pski...the whole permit for 3 guys going out and fishing and comparing a catch..REDICULOUS, I agree completely. BUT< 4 boats full of wakeboarders can go buzz around a slalom course for 8 hours without any such permit!!!!!!!

But I can't completely agree with this statement, every decision is made by considering all options and people involved...just look at the thread on this site about changing summer regulations on some trout lakes...and the bass management has had MANY complaints, but they are doing what they feel is best for the lakes.

This may be tough for many of us to handle, but tournament fishermen in CT DO NOT have a good reputation with the public...there have been too many cases of parking issues, dead fish floating at the launch...and here is one that many of us don't think of...POWER LOADING!!!!!!!! WAY TOO MANY launches are nearly ruined in CT because of the big bass boats power loading onto their trailers!!! Yea, not all of the damage is done by tourney guys, but it is a significant chunk!

I think writing the representative may be worth while, but I think(and this is an informed opinion from talking to MANY at DEP)that behavioral changes are NECESSARY to ensure that continued strick regulations can be avoided!!!

It is up to everyone what they choose to do, to each his own...but I have made it a goal of mine to ensure that every tournament I run and attend will abide by the set regulations to ensure that tourney can continue to occur in CT!!!

I think I have to disagree with that in some way. Look at all the smaller lakes where power loading isn't an option. The state does crap about improving our launches. If it wasn't for guy's power loading half our ramps would be silted in to the point you can hardly launch a boat. Just to name a few Bashan Quonipaug, N Farms, Rogers, Danbury town park Latins cove all of them have what equals a joke in terms of suitable launch sites. I think fisherman contribute more dollars to the state general fund then all pleasure boaters/Jet skiers combined but we get the least in return.
for our money. Booty I think you have a point as a rule we fisherman are lazy to get organized or complain and wait untill it's to late to do something about it. Look how many Bitch sesions took place on this site alone over the last year on a number of issues. But did we take any action? No! We sit back and think someone else will do it. I said it before and I'll say it again. Someday the only place in Ct where a tournament can be held will be the Ct River.
See now I went and did all this complaining , But will I get off my ass and try to organize and have a voice in goverment? NO it's easier to sit and Bitch.

By Dusty We're talking about two totally different departments within the DEP though. Fisheries is a tiny portion of Bureau of Outdoor Recreation while Boating , who makes these parking rules has a completly different Bureau Chief and falls under Parks. Parks has different priorities than Fisheries. They could care less about tournaments other than they are a thorn in their side. Fisheries, generally, has no issue with tournaments.

Certaintly not the only reason, but one of the reasons that there is no State ramp on Waramaug is due to the Parks division not wanting it there. That is their park and a boat launch would just be another burden. Boating falls under Parks, Boat launches fall under Parks. Our issue is not necassarily with Fisheries, it ought to be aimed at Boating/Parks. Dusty, can you provide us with the name of the Bureau Chief of Parks? I believe this is the person that needs an earfull. Carbon copy all messages to DEP Commisioner, Gina Mcarthy and your local Representative also.

Just to be an idiot though, I wonder if a tournament permit application would be approved if it was indicated that it would NOT be catch & release? No law against a group of folks getting together to collect a bunch of fish for eats right?

Chris, I agree with you on the launch issue.

I disagree that guys only bitched on here about certain issues. We motivated a good number of fishermen on CTF to speak out on certain issues, including: motor boat fuel tax, more funding for CO's, and Sunday hunting.

There are links to some of the efforts in this forum:

http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/forum/f/48.html

Our efforts worked. I've gotten feedback from the DEP and others and know that we raised some eyebrows.

As much as I view CTF has a reports board and place to have fun with fellow fishermen, I also realize we can use it to get behind certain fisheries issues.

However, and this is a big however...the number of fishermen on here are only a tiny fraction of the fishermen in the state. Fishermen as a group need to do something more...

I've been saying it for a while. I think we need one group to unify all fishermen to show the politicians just how many of us there are and how much money our sport contributes to the economy:

http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/33/t/000209.html

I swear if I were single, no kids, I'd do what I could to help form such a group and lead the charge. Nothing would give me more satisfaction. Unfortunately, I'm spread so thin now between a baby, family, work and everything else, that I just can't put forth the time and dedication to do it right. But, I'll always do what I can to help preserve, protect and promote fishing via CTF.

Pski let me ask you what would happen if you had a small tournament or a "hat tournament". Lets say ten boats, and did'nt file for a permit. what can they do, would they go after the guy who is charge or all the guys who participated. Not that I'm saying we should do this, but if the state starts taking permits away from us it may lead to it.

Have any of you ever had your heart set on a day of fishing, and go to the spot you planned and there were no parking spots because of a tournament? These rules are set in place to protect everyone's rights. DEP Inland Fisheries does everything it possibly can to be fair and appease everyone, anglers and tournament directors. Bill Foreman, the man who handles all the tournaments at the DEP, is a great guy and goes above and beyond his duties to make everyone happy. He goes out of his way daily to try to get more parking spots permitted for directors, and make tournaments possible when there are otherwise problems. Bill Hyatt, the Director of Inland Fisheries is also a great guy who does whatever he possibly can to appease tourney directors. Maybe it would beneficial for someone to contact Boating about parking regulations, because like Dusty said, it IS Boating that controls parking. Also someone wants to know what would happen if they checked to NO box for catch and release, well the answer is- nothing. You are allowed to keep your daily limit which is six fish, and even though it is a tourney, you are still allowed to keep your limit. As for the conditions of launches, again, someone should contact Boating and alert them to the problem. But remember that you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And FYI, the folks in Hartford do not take the "path of least resistance", seriously. That may be what it looks like, but that could not be further from the truth. All tourney participants and directors should feel grateful to have Bill Foreman on their side, because that is what he is-on your side. As for the wakeboarders, everytime there is a disruptive incident, I would report it to Boating. It is not that Fisheries is "limiting permits" for no reason. If a permit is not given, it could be a few reasons: there could already be a tourney there using all the parking spaces (a tourney app which was recieved before yours), It could be a bass management lake and Fisheries does not allow exemptions in July and August to protect the health of bass. That is another issue which people seem tho have a problem with. All of the regulations that the DEP puts into effect are there for a reason. Bass management lakes are in the process of improving their bass populations. These small little tweaks that the DEP has made, in the end, actually provides all anglers with better big game fishing. I hope any info. I've provided has been helpful. Any other questions I may be able to answer, or find the answer to, just PM or e-mail me.

I'm not a freshwater guy, but I'm curious, for the most part, are these tournies volunteer run low profile events or big money, big business, high stakes affairs?

Maybe what you need is different rules for recreational versus commercial tourneys?

Gerg, you make a valid point. I remember reading in the Danbury News Times where they printed there were something like 150 or 200 tournaments a year on candlewood. Now that may be, but it is very misleading. Maybe 15 or 20 are big turnouts. One more thing, I've been seeing more d.e.p. officers at the candlewood ramps and they are pretty friendly towards anglers. I to agree the dep is on our side.

Believe it or not, the majority of tourneys throughout the state of CT usually have from 5-20 participants. There are not all that many commercial tourneys, maybe the FLW which is going on now at the CT River is the biggest(with the most publicity) this year. The amount of tourneys at Candlewood is absolutely crazy!!! It's the biggest lake in CT, and one of the best fisheries in CT, loaded with huge SMB, LMB, and Walleye. I'm really surprised that the ramps aren't in worse condition. People come from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Mass., and R.I. to fish this lake. The supervision is quite consistant, so I wouldn't attempt any illegal tourneys on this lake (or any other). It could cost you your ability to recieve permits. Usually a 10 man tourney isn't a big deal, and if the lake or launch you want is occupied, someone at Inland Fisheries in Hartford could give you a list of what's available for that day and what may be more productive fish-wise. With a fax machine, you might even be able to get a last- minute touney approved in a few days (depending on the lake and launch and please don't quote me, I can't make any promises). I will also personally go out of my way to try to make it happen. I love to fish myself, so I understand the NEED. People who don't feel this way about fishing just don't understand.

Thanks for your input AC6...Tight Lines & Screaming Drags....

Wished D.E.P. would have been at the Squantz ramp yesterday afternoon for our weight in. What a mess. You would think that these people decided to come off the water at the same time as our weight in on purpose.

How about this, DEP put up a sign at the ramps stating that, "There is a permitted tournamenet taking place from this ramp today. The weight in time will be "????". Expect heavy ramp traffic during this time.

????? Just an idea.

Get'r'done, I ran into that issue at Lattins last year. There were 3 total clubs trying to pull out as well as 6-7 boats/jet skis. It was a total mess. Our tourney ended at 3:00 and I didn't get my boat out of the water until 4:15 or something.

The bottom line with government having been involved in politics for more than 20 years is the squeaky wheel gets the grease. They DO take the path of least resistance as someone else already mentioned.

You can see it in the recent post concerning the mayhem at the Lake Housatonic ramp over the July 4th weekend with people taking up all the parking for boats with cars and one guy parking a minivan across 3 boating spots! No tickets issued, no minivan/cars towed. They didn't want to start a riot. So it's ok to violate others rights and the regulations in place if you represent a threat or would appear ready to cause havoc.

It couldn't be clearer, we do need to continually advocate for out rights, in whatever way possible or soon we'll have none!

Walt

If another club is coming off the water the same time yours is, they probably are not permitted to do so. But I.F. do not know about any problems until it is brought to their attention. If someone were to call saying that another tournament came off the lake at the wrong time coinciding with their tourney which caused all kinds of problems, the tourney director would get a call asking never to do that again. For non-tourney boaters, that's a different situation. I will pass the suggestion up the line, I don't think it's a bad idea. Especially if it would make it easier for the tourney participants. For the tourney at Lattins last year, Bill Foreman specifically schedules tourneys to have differing weigh in times to prevent those exact problems. If there were three tourneys weighing in at the same time, then two of them were not supposed to be. In that case, if it was brought to the attention of Inland Fisheries, whoever was in the wrong would have been confronted. As far as I know, there were no tourneys going on at Lake Housatonic on the Forth of July. In my opinion, it violated the rights of anglers. From what you describe, they should have been given tickets and their cars towed. Why they were not, I have no idea. I would say that formal complaints should be filed with Boating. I don't think it's ok to violate that rights of anybody, even if it would cause havoc. I think morons that park like that should be ticketed and towed. There's really nothing that Inland Fisheries can do about that. Unless any problems are brought to the attention of Inland Fisheries, they don't know that they are happening. You say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, well if there are legitimate problems, call and report them. If nothing was done about the idiot-parking on the forth, I would report it to Boating. I have never seen anyone at Inland Fisheries take the past of least resistance. Myself and the people around me absolutely do not. If everyone could see the time and effort that is put into trying to solve every problem, you'd think differently, at least about Inland Fisheries.

I believe there is a Boating Advisory meeting in Old Lyme on August 2nd. All concerned might think about attending.

If you have concerns, you should try to attend.

The Boating Advisory Meeting will be Wednesday, August 2, 2006 at 7:30PM at the DEP Marine Headquarters Library. The addess is 333 Ferry Road Old Lyme.

I missed it. Sorry. How bout a 300 boat parade around the Capital in Hartford. Can you imagine over 300 boats as well as a last minute news crew. You think that squeak would be heard? We could have someone speak on behalf of the group saying bass fishing is a growing sport and that the state recieves a nice $$ from our purchases etc. We should be accomadated as well as the general public.I don't have no axe to grind with jetskiers and waterskiers. I go to launches and watch people who genuinely struggle with launching a boat. Bass boats with 2 people working together can be launched and recovered in no time flat. So what does this boil down to parking or silencing squeaky wheels? As far as policing our own I think it's all common sense. Some people have it and some don't. Just have to help the ones that don't a bit better. Any thoughts on this? I do appreciate Mr. Foreman's efforts to the tournie fisherman in this state. We all have to work together to stop this pendulum from swinging so much against us.

30 minute wait to trailer what ...12 bass boats... they made pretty good time I'd say. Joe Public couldn't trailer 12 boats that fast. The guy probably made up the other junk about trucks blocking everything.

I get the entire 1/2 the capacity of the parking lot rule - but I think our state launch parking lots should all have been bigger and I have to assume that they are intentionally kept small due to lake resident pressure. Look at the Bantum launch for example - they gotta be kidding me with that thing.

Were not getting a fair shake in CT.

If the dep didn't have to give out so many out of state permits. This might not even be an issue. I'm sure most of the complants are from candlewood.Seeing as there is one at both launches almost every week from day one until seasons close.

The main problemn is this state su-ks!!!!! and so do the peolpe that run it!!!!!

HAHAAAAAAHAAAA
haaaaahahahahahahaa! Hey Buckcall, maybe if you'd learn how to spell, things wouldn't suck as much. Just Kidding. I just want to fish, BUT I CAN'T CUZ I'M STUCK LATE AT WORK EVERY NIGHT FIXING TOURNEY PROBLEMS!!!!!!!! OK I'm exaggerating....but seriously - I just want to fish, I don't think I've touched ANY plastics this year. I think I'm sleep deprived but I'd still rather be mud poutin by an open fire right now.

no walt...wait 30 minutes for people to move their PARKED boats, that were already trailered...people jsut decided that parking on the launch was acceptable

I truly enjoyed tourny fishing, however I have gievn up because too many bodies of water have been shut out to our club. I tried to encourage the club to form smaller divisions to open our opprotunities. The club declined that idea. I have since joined TU, and now fish for Bluegill with my 6 year old son. the time is better spent and I have more fun. I have also expanded my fishing options.

I'm joining the thread late, but I have my two cents worth:

WHY DO WE HAVE A PERMIT STRUCTURE IN PLACE ANYWAY?

It is my belief that the reason is simple: The state has a group to blame in the event of trouble, or complaints by anyone in the public.

No money is collected by the permit issuers for the permits, money is not the reason tournaments are required.

Any GUN OWNER knows that the reason they have to get a gun permit is so that there is accountability records for any illegal activity relating to a gun's use. Makes sense.

But with permits for fishing tournament is the same thing. There has to be someone accountable to issues, and complaints. With the tournament permits, the process creates a group that they can go after when issues arise.

Well, see here's the thing: If there were no tourney permits, several clubs could show up at the same lake and launch hoping and expecting to launch at 7:00 am (for example). This would cause nothing but havoc! Clubs wanting to launch ASAP would have to wait much later than they would want to.

Also, a tournament is only allowed to use 50% of the parking capacity, for reasons that protect the rights of the public (including you and I). I don't know about you, but I'm not fishing a tourney EVERY time I go fishing. So if I travel 25 miles to get to a spot, and see that there is absolutely no parking and an hour wait for the launch- I'm not going to be very happy. Permits are implemented for the rights of EVERYONE: Clubs, the public, the town, etc. The DEP really does have the rights of everyone in mind, believe it or not.

I am not sticking up for the DEP but I can understand where they are comming from . When I have worked with Bill Foreman he has always helped me out in everyway he could to expand the number of boats . And like someone here said I have used alt parking away from the launch area . Another thing I agree with here is the statement Chris made about people powering their boats on the trailor . PUT THE DAM TRAILOR A LITTLE FARTHER IN THE WATER . We all know that the state is not going to fix the muck buildup that this causes and all it is doing is making it tough for a lot of people to launch . Again just my 2 cents

"When it comes to the issues -- whether it's fisheries management, tournaments, regulations, etc. -- we've been a lazy group. We haven't spoken up" (Mitch P).

You are right Mitch, as fishermen we need to advocate for ourselves!

I have read a lot of good points made in this thread, but if we want to get the DEP and state reps on our side we need to support them and their efforts. One way to do this is to police ourselves as was mentioned earlier, but to also assist the DEP in conservation efforts such as lake cleanups and youth fishing programs.

If we assist with youth fishing derbies, Casting Kids, C.A.R.E. (CT. Aquatic Research Education) programs, urban youth fishing programs, etc. we would do a lot to improve our image with the DEP and state reps (Gov. Rell). This would give us much more leverage than we currently have when we voice our concerns with state reps for our rights as fishermen.

to anyone who can answer: We are interested in signing up for various tourneys this year in Ct. for fresh water fishing. Please post any information that would be helpful in contact, requirements, fees, and any other information that would help. Thankyou, TFitzgerald.