New Trout regs

Could we please get an explantion on why some of the trout regs are being changed and closed seasons being added in the prime months.

Does this mean we cannot use down riggers or leadcore on these lakes anymore at all or just during the closed season ?

Can I troll with a keel sinker ?

Can I troll using SS Wire (not leadcore) ?

Can I still troll deep diving crank baits for smallies ?

What will this do to the current regs and slot limits currently in place ?

What if I catch a trout while fishing at night in July under my "crappie" lights ?

I see lots of loop holes already in the new regs :rolleyes:

Why not protect the trout with a closed season during the spawn ?
From September until January ?

If true it's the best news I,ve heard to date. I wish it would include Lakeville.

my worst nightmare...nooooo!

a much better thing would be artificial lures only,especially on east twin.

The survival of trout released during periods when water temperatures are above 75F is not good. Lakes like E Twin and Highland with a size limit of one brown 20" or over and a slot limit of one brown over 16" respectively, means that many fish are usually caught and released before one may be kept. Even if you release all fish you are not doing the fish any good. It doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference what you use, though bait is the the poorest choice during such periods.

Good point Joe on releasing trout in warm water . I catch and release many of my trout and leave them alone July thru mid September.

These new proposed regs are going to put a lot more pressure on Lakeville at the worst possible time of the year. The lake all ready is going down hill fast with the too liberal daily limit on trout. I can't understand why the DEP allows 5 browns of any size as the daily limit. A few years back I saw a cooler of 11 browns from 5-9lbs taken by 3 men. This lake has produced 20+ trout in the past and with proper regs do it again.

Wow you guys are fast!
As of right now we are only looking into the potential of instituting a summer closed season (July 1-Sept. 15)on East Twin, Highland and Crystal. Nothing is close to being finalized. We are proposing this regulation change for 2007 at the earliest. There are several goood reasons for this proposal. In a nutshell we have had the special regs on Trophy Trout Lakes on several of our best cold water lakes for over 10 years. We have seen some modest success in Highland but not much in Cyrstal. East Twin did great in the beginning (with a very strict closed season June 1 to 3rd. Sat in April of the next year). When the closed season was removed in 1998 we have seen a decline, though still an OK Trophy trout fishery until this past year. Our fall sample in East Twin this past year (2005) was horrible and we are not very optimistic about large trout in East Twin for this upcoming year. We have reasonably good creel data from all 3 locations that indicates, that a very small number of fishermen catch a incredible number of trout in these locations during the heat of the summer (when available coldwater habitat is most compressed and trout are most stressed from handling). As an example, several years ago myself and other fisheries personnel talked to 3 boats (4 anglers)on East Twin Lake who claimed to have caught a combined total of 4,500 trout, for the whole season, all out of East Twin Lake. Obviously the majority of those fish were released but the fact is that many trout are being caught and released repeatedly during the course of the summer. Even if hooking and handling mortality are fairly low for one capture event, they increase dramatically for multiple events. Add to this the fact that anglers can legally harvest 4 trout under the slot (in Highland and Crystal) for the whole year and you begin to see one reason why we might not have a large number of trout surviving into the slot length limit and even fewer coming out on the upper side. Our expectation is that the summer closed season will improve the fishing for holdover trout within a few years. The no-downriggers/leadcore is an attempt to reduce the anglers who might still go out after trout, during the heat of the summer, and claim that they are trolling for bass/perch/etc. Yes ,people can still "cheat" if they want to try and get away with something but at least it would make some of the more effective summer techniques very obvious. There will be public hearings scheduled on all of this and we encourage everyone to participate and express your support or reasons why you would be opposed. In all honesty, I know this is a very big sacrifice on many of you die-hard trout anglers, but I honestly believe it will improve fishing for hold-over brown trout, in these locations, for everyone.

Timb: Why not include Lakeville? Or at least change the creel limit.

Tim - Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Lakes and Ponds guide basically say even the lakes you mentioned have "potential" for holdovers. With the exception of perhaps a stable water level at Colebrook or Hogsback I don't think any CT lakes will hold over many trophy sized fish. If these regulations come to pass you can count on me possibly taking my license money out of state. Not all of us are bass fisherman.

Thanks Tim.

Thank you Tim for the response.

I can kinda of understand the rational of high water temps and higher mortality rates.

I consider myself an avid summer angler on Higland and East Twin. I am also 100% catch and relase when it comes to brown trout. All of last summerbetween myself and the guys I fish with we probably seen less than 5 browns we released to be questionable if they would make it or not ,I think only two actually died and where un revivable.Now this is 2 out of more than a thousand or so trout(read the reports here from last season) I understand not all anglers are C+R. I know only one person who likes to keep every trout he cathces within the regs, and this is a BIG problem because this guy is good and gets some big trout every week,even some double digit trout ,and he keeps them all,he also puts in serious time fishing 4-5 days a week.

Sooooo...............

Maybe you could reduce creels limits or make these lakes catch and release only for Brown trout year round . Stock a few more rainbows for the meat hunters to keep. These lakes have plenty of other great species to fish for besides trout,so this would not be a problem.

The biggest problem I see is the trout get fished out really hard in the fall, they are easy targets all schooled up at the tribs on these lakes. I know Highland has people lined up every night in the fall at the fish ladder on Sucker Brook Cove because of all the trout and how easy they are to catch.These trout do not stand a chance against all the un educated anglers lining the banks in these areas. Maybe it is time for some regs restricting how close you can fish to a tributary or fish ladder during the spawn Sept -Jan ? This would greatly help the fishery and actually give more Browns a shot at spawning.


another question that needs an answer is : On East Twin and Highland chemical weed eradication has taken place over the last several years. It is also about the time we started seeing fewer big trout on these lakes, could this in anyway be part of the problem of less big trout ? I know from expierance since the chemicals where put into these lakes they have become harder to fish because they now lack sufficent cover for all species of fish to relate to.


and the more I think about the proposed changes the more split I become on if I am for or against them.
I do not keep brown trout so the regs will really not affect me in one way or the other,never liked lead core and can do with out a down rigger if need be.

I am adimant however that the trout season should be limited during the spawn when the browns are schooled up shallow near the feeder streams and creeks! (sort of like the regs on the Housatonic in the summer "No fishing withing 100 yards brooks or streams feeding into the Housatonic during the summer months )

I am also curious as to why these three lakes where selceted for closure during the summer when many others also could fit the critera(West Hill,Candlewood,Lakeville,Squantz I am sure theres a few more).

Please keep us posted as to when the hearings on these proposed changes are to take place.

I know I am not a bioligist but I have plenty of years on the water expierance at Highland and East Twin .I hope my 2 cents on subject is worth something .......

I'm with Mike G 100%.

I really hope this does ever happen. It's like a bad dream to think I can't go troll up some trout after work for a few hours.

Somebody please wake me!!!!!!!!

I agree, I have fished these lakes since I was a kid and lucky enough to have a dock to keep my boat at on highland so I have spent much more time on the lake then east twin but in all that time I have never experienced a day of fishing like the ones I have in the past few years on east twin. This was probably due to the strict regs on east twin that highland never before saw. Since the strick regs at east twin have been removed, last year specifically I have noticed a drastic decline in the number of big fish. Even though I love to fish and we only have a handful of good months of weather to enjoy it on our boats I am willing to take the hit to bring back the numbers at east twin lake and bring those numbers and quality fish to highland lake. But I do agree with the others when they say it would be more of an impact to put regulations on fishing the ladders in the fall than to kill our summers. I know when I do to east twin I can catch 75 trout a day with one buddy in my boat and I will only see one or two die from being caught. But if the state feels that the summer months must go to accomplish their goals than why not think about barbless hooks during those summer months and change the creel limits on top of it, this would save the few fatalities that their are.

First of all where are they getting these "mortality" figures??
4500 trout by one group of anglers??? where would they get that information??
Gee, I wonder.... I find it a bit strange that this closure is exclusive to
Highland and East Twin Lake. ???
why not Lakeville,Candlewood?,Squantz,West Hill?
Why not make Twin/highland Catch and release for browns and stock more rainbows to compensate?What about barbless hooks??? LIKE A TMA!! BUT A LAKE GEE THERES A CONCEPT!!!!
It's funny what sharing information can do. Sometimes you put your foot in your mouth.
Time for me to zip my lips on my fishing exploits. one of the most damaging things to our lakes fisheries have been the internet. more people fishing for less fish. Its not hard to figure out. many places have been exploited.
any many lakes and rivers have NEW anglers flocking there waters.. Why??

its funny that since the Chemical applications to the lakes in question took a dive
in Large Trout populations!! imagine that!!! Take away habitat, take away forage and so on.

Twin already closes in march(and longer Depending on ice ) So now you have a trophy lake you can't fish for 1/4 of the year. WHY EVEN HAVE IT!! what about those who live on these lakes??

I put alot of time in on Highland/twin/west hill last few summers and I can honestly say I can only remember a 2 trout that actually died at highland. and I dont remember any at twin . maybe a few wer slow to go. out of a 1000 or so trout 2 rainbows were killed . and thats all.

how come you aren't concerned with West Hill??
There are trout blood baths there EVERYNIGHT of the summer.. Why is this ok?? and not the other lakes???


SO WHAT IS CHEATING?? going fishing??? Trying to actaully catch a few fish??
using a worm and hook?? Whats next??? No fishing with hooks?? Can i go out fishing without someone TELLING ME WHAT I"M TARGETTING?? Whats next No bait fishing?? ,Ban of split shots?? where do you draw the line??

What about the states anglers who have time and money invested in perferred angling pursuits??
What about the guy who doesn't do much bass Fishing? you just took away 1/4 of his season?

I'll just "find" better places to fish


It just seems whenever a few people have to much success someone has to stop it.
There are still big trout in twin lakes.

I'm all for trying to recover some trophy fisheries . I just think punishing anglers is wrong . and there has to be way to let CT anglers get there Moneys worth.

What am i buying a license for?? This is getting out of hand. I have way to much to say about this.

If such a hearing takes place, I would like to attend as would a few of my friends.


Mike
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tim i agree on the decline of fish in twin,its not what it was 5 years ago.i have to say i see a lot of fish killed by the part timers who rent boats from ohares and go out with a full pail of shiners to anchor or drift and start the blood bath.99% of every trout ive picked up dead there has a snelled size 4-6 eagle claw hanging out of its mouth,never mind every 10-15th one i catch thats still alive with a hook in it.i guess that on average theres well over a thousand fish that are taken on my boat a year and my honest opinion on mortality during the summer is 2% using artificial lures ,and this is on the high side.i know live bait fisherman are around 30% or better,its all i used to do so its not a guess.mortality is worse with shiners than meal worms or garden worms too.closing the season will help to an extent but i belive artificial lures would be a much better rule.as for highland wich is a different circumstance the breeding fish need protection if the fishing pressure is that bad,as you know the larger fish wich are the spawners are always the first to be kept.

guys, I'm going to semi-stay out of this because it's a pandora's box...but do you hnestly think that because you saw a fish swim away that it didn't die.

MOST post-angling mortality occurs after the fish has swum away, not at the side of the boat.

That is ALL I will say on this issue, not only because it is controversial but because I no longer fish for trout so am not opinionated on the season and its regulations.

I am merely making this statement because of what I know of fish biology and management.

A lot of what I am hearing, with some exceptions, is what is best for "me" not what is best for the fish and the lake. Don't any of you remember what E Twin fishing was like when the limit for browns was one 22" or more and the season was 3rd sat in april thru the end of May. That wasn't so bad.

Dusty - So putting bass in a live well for 1/2 a day or more then weighing them in is ok? You are right, it is a pandoras box. Where does the line get drawn? The state establishes trophy trout fisheries that they stock heavily and strictly manage, then think about further regulating them because too many people are catching the trout they put in them. The TM lakes are perhaps the most stockpiled lakes in regards to trout, hence the reason people fish them hard. There have been reports that Twin has had a decline in the alewife population which may also be effecting the size of the fish being caught.

John NWCT - All due respect, but when I see potential in one sentence and then it is followed in another with a date of proposal for 2007 at the earliest......see how it reads as a bit more than potential. That whole part of the post contradicts itself. Why should we wait until after the regulation is established to voice our opinions. Apparently you are for it, and others like myself are against it.

if they propose this rule for 2007 are they really going to tell the land and homeowners that live on these lakes that their trophy trout lake that they paid a mint to live on for their whole summer of r and r can't go fishing on them anymore? aren't all of these lakes and ponds surrounded by summer homes and cottages? i know it's probably not the biggest percentage but what about the people that come from other states and places to rent these cottages for their vacation so they can relax and go fishing for the week? now they're just going to be told that the lake that they always go to is no longer a fishery for the summers. that doesn't even sound right. won't this cut down on out of state licenses that are sold and even just the instate people who buy a license just to go out for the week while they're there. and those people may never be back. i guess all trout guys will have to go out of state for trout and not buy a conn. license anymore. also i don't know where the counts on fish declining are. i just met up with a guy who pulled five trout out of crystal lake this year that were all over four lbs.with 1 going almost 6 lbs. with proof. that doesn't sound like a declining fishery to me. and he put them all back and watched them swim away (very healthily i might add) on the video.

No I agree Keith...and most people here know that i stick to my guns. I have previously posted about the damage that tournament fishing can cause bass...I agree, neither that nor this are good for the fish

You would think that the proposed reg are going to prevent people from fishing. "GET A LIFE" It's only three lakes where the DEP is trying to preserve the trophy trout fishery. A number of us that care about preserving these trout fisheries voluntarily don't trout fish during the July to Sept 15 period. You can always fish for bullheads I don't think anyone will bother you.

I'm not directing this at anyone, but it never fails that people bitch when they feel there aren't regulations in place and then bitch when they feel there are too many. You can't ask the DEP to make management decisions based on their expertise and data, and then complain when they actually make one.

If the issue is actual fishing mortality during warm months and not an actual harvest issue, there really are no other ways to get at their goal. I'm also suprised that they'd react to creel data indicating few anglers catching lots of fish, and I can only assume they would have reacted the same way to all anglers catching fewer fish.

As pointed out already, a fish swimming away does not mean it survived. A question for timb would be has fishing mortality on East Twin been examined or are estimates coming from literature and general ALK type information?

We deal with closed seasons for a bunch of fish, both fresh and salt and have to deal with it.

I think that the zebra mussels are far more responsible for the decline in big trout in East Twin than any one will admit to. Years ago you would see huge schools of alewives in the shallows. You don't see that any more. The zebra mussels filter out the exact thing that the alewives eat. And guess what? You can't get rid of them they just keep spredding on the lake. Lake Ontario's great brown trout and lake trout fishery has taken a big hit because of the same thing.

Yes only 3 lakes. Three of the best trout lakes in the state and it conspicuously leaves out several other trophy trout lakes. And yes it would possibly prevent me from fishing in CT. I prefer to target trout. Why waste my money here for only a few months when I can go to MA all year long or fish VT. As I stated before, natural selection will do the same thing as the fisherman. You will never achieve a large number of hold overs in most lakes in CT. The oxygen levels are just not there to support lots of big fish. That is not my opinion, but what is stated in the Lakes and Ponds book published by the DEP. Trophy trout lakes were created to make angling oppotunities, but now that they are being utilized they want to cut back the access.

Well John NW CT ..
easy with the hate there pal..
looks like your the newest member of my hate club!! CONGRADULATIONS!!!

So where is this 90' hole on east twin?? enlighten me???
I would say banning Ice fishing would be a more realistic approach to protecting the fishery.I agree 100%

I agree that the mortality Does not happen at boat side. but where does it happen>? who sees it?? How do you know its happening?? if a tree falls in the forest ....i just question the claims. and the source of the info..

This will be my last post on this topic..
anyone can send me a PM on this topic.

and JOEM... i'd rather go bait fishing then catch bullheads. Thanks for that marvelous suggestion. I look forward to your Bullhead reports..

Soooooooooooooo...................


Fishing deep for trout is bad ,fishing shallow for trout is bad

Ice fishing for trout is bad.

Summer Fishing for trout is bad

Fishing in the fall for trout is bad.

Season is closed in the early spring as it stands now.

Sooooooooooo..........when is a good time to fish for trout and what is the proper depth to catch trout from so they can released un harmed ????

Trout are a put and take fishery !!! It's the DEP's job to put them in and our job as anglers to take them :rolleyes:

It also seems the Catch and release guys are taken the worst beating on this with all the talk of after the release mortality.

Screwed if I do ,screwed if I dont,to bad no one will know how many trout I catch this year because I am done posting fishing reports here on ctf.

I suppose I am doing something wrong as well by heading up the ctf trout club ? (((Which I see very few of you participating in so I will reach in my own pocket and make up the differance to make it happen.What do you do to give something back to fishing in CT besides buy a liscense ??? :rolleyes:

You guys are very passionate about you little freshwater fish. With some training, the bluefish jihad network can use people like you!

Come over here, I want you to meet my lil'fren... Stop bitchen and let the big boys figure it out. This is supposed to be one of our fun passions not one that pisses everyone off.

One of my passions is trout fishing. Apparently one that others are seeing fit to potentially allow for less than half a year. Perhaps we should all sit idly by and let every regulation put forth, no matter how debateable, pass with no input or debate? First trout, then closed spawning for bass....and so on. When the only fish you can catch year round in CT become pumpkinseeds and bullheads, don't come crying here please.

FWIW, I'm with Capt Alewife on the depth comment on Twin. What 90ft hole? In fact how the trout there aren't even holding at 60ft in the summer. They set up in the thermocline as does the bait, not on the bottom.

On the proposed regs.Those on CTF are ahead of the curve on this. I wounder how the general fisherman is going to be informed of this? I know there are many that would like to have input. On most changes to hunting and fishing reg. the info does not get to a lot of people. The more input the DEP gets on this the better they can try to accommodate concerns while implementing the changes necessary.

Keith...lets not bring in the closed bass season during spawning...thats a whole other pandora's box.

Dusty - True, it is I agree. Unfortunately if this trophy trout item goes through, could the issues with bass be far behind?

No fishing during the spawn cant' be substantiated so it's moot

For bass mycept??? interesting idea...the Northeast Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies has its annual conference April 23-26 and according to teh 4 contributed abstracts for the session on that exact subject it can be substantiated.

I'd be interested to see the data because the issues for black bass spawning impacts are on a bed to bed basis. There hasn't been much of anything that shows the impacts on an entire lake level. I'm not saying it can't have an impact, but it's an expensive undertaking and people aren't willing to pay for it. This has been looked at in the south before.

It's a moot point imo because you really can't show that it has any impacts, your list of assumptions would be very large.

We should get back to the trout reg, and not hijack the thread.

agreed

I think weed eradication programs do far more harm to bass populations than fishing during the spawn could ever do. Unfortunenately these programs are gaining in popularity among local property owners and lake associations.

My comments weren't ment to change the topic, just to foreshadow what may occur if we always roll over and just go with whatever laws are proposed.

yea guys lets leav ethe bass thing alone now...lets stick to trout.

Yes, cut line close and release. The hook will rust free in time.

I'm all for the old regs to bring back the trophy size fish. 1 over 22" and close the season after june 1 was it on twin. then open it in a year or 2. After a few years re-institute closure or something along those lines. I don't feel it can be the free for all it's been for the last few years. Night fishing, ice fishing, summer/spring and fall. As soon as a trout reaches 20.1" it's kept by a bunch of guys, not everyone though. It's nice to go there and catch a boat load of trout 95% of which are browns but I would be willing to give up a little to gain some more bigger fish.

Bass closed during the spawn ,now that would be an interesting debate. LOL

I still like the idea of making these lakes catch and relase only year round for Brown trout.

These new regs will seem to only effect the meat hunters.So I am neither for or against them.


Start stocking some brood stock salmon in these lakes to supplement the lack of big fish,it would be instant gratification to the anglers and take the pressure of the brown trout until the numbers of big fish gets to a point the state is happy with.

Why don't we just close it all year! Than we can get some holdovers for PETA. Its fishing, even catch and release fish or going to die.

These are the most ridiculous proposed rules I have yet to hear come out of the CT Dep department's mouth. Your going to tell me the only place in CT, I can actually effeciently use downriggers, that I can't fish during these times anymore. Mine aswell sell the downriggers and buy a jon boat and get some worms and minows.

You want to do something ban ice fishing or bait fishing all together on East Twin.

No better yet lets take the most eduacated fisherman (downriggers, leadcore, dipsey fisherman) and take them out of the picture. LMAO.

Keith G. and all,
Obviously, we have alot of strong opinions on this. The fact that I said it is something that the Inland Fisheries Div. is "considering" and that we would not institute it before 2007 is not contradictory. The regulation process requires greater than one year to complete. Any regulation change needs to be evaluated, discussed, and then written up for internal and external review. It is a very lengthy process. However, in order to even begin the process the regulation change must first be written up and passed through numerous reviews by our agency, the Attorney General's office and Legislative review and then it goes to public hearings. All of this takes time. This regulation is by no means a "done deal". The earlier everyone knows about potential changes that we are considering, the better the opportunity for dialogue and an exchange of ideas.
One or two other points that I wanted to comment on. First, are there other changes occurring in these locations (weed tratments,reduced forage, introduced exotic species, i.e. zebra mussels in East Twin)? Absolutely, yes. Are they responsible for the lack of holdover trout? I don't believe so, but that is only my opinion. On mortality, Dusty makes a very valid point. The observed, immediate mortality in fish is only the tip of the iceberg. These are the "easy ones" to document, because they are most easily observed. However, for every fish that dies next to the boat, several swim away and die hours to days later. Most fish mortality is due to an accumulation of stress factors. Finding food,avoiding predators, high water temperatures, capture and release, disease etc. all cause stress. The more stress factors that fish are subjected to, over a shorter period of time,
the greater the mortality. Believe me that I am the last person that ever wants to reduce people's ability to go fishing (aside from not being in my best interest professionally, I am also an avid angler)! But, as a fisheries biologist I also consider it my obligation to help educate anglers. If we know stress kills fish and we know (at least in this case) when the greatest amout of stress occurs, than why not try to do something to reduce it? Does it hurt some anglers? Absolutely. It is better for the fish and does it have the potential to make fishing better for everyone...I believe it does. Are anglers willing to make the necessary sacrifices in order to potentially see better angling opportunity for big fish? That part is up to you!

the trout fisheries in CT are put and take, some lakes have the ablity to grow larger fish, but its still put and take, that being said these proposed regs make no sense

Timb,

There seems to be some concern that people posting how many fish they catch on a message board is being used by managers to help in decision making. I see that you said in your fisrt post that CTDEP has collected creel data. Does the creel data actually reflect what people are saying here on the boards? I'd be interested to see the estimates from your creel data. Also, do you have actual mortality data for these lakes in the summer or just mortality estimates from catch curves you've derived from ALK's, and if thats the case are you doing them every year?

I'm not questioning the proposed regulations, and I will readily admit I've never fished the lakes in question. However, from the sounds of the discussion here there are many other times of year where the fish might be better protected from fishermen to ensure survival (i.e., fishing when trout are congregating in the streams and easy targets). No doubt mortality is higher in the summer, but the higher summer mortality may not be as large a factor as the fish being hammered when they're congregating.

With regards to regulation changes, you're in the worst possible spot. You have to make potentially unpopular decisions based on what information you may or may not have, yet you want to keep fishermen happy and be able to fish yourself. I know how it feels and I don't envy your position. However, I do have a suggestion.

Perhaps someone could take the time to cut and paste or write up a detailed explaination specifically for this proposed regulation change. The information must exist in a report or a group or reports. It would be very interesting and informative to see what the data are saying that drive managers to make decisions. I'm sure to even think about drafting regulation changes, there has to be substantial justification backed by real data.

WE ALL HAVE JOBS THAT WE GO TO EVERYDAY. TIM B HAPPENS TO BE A FISHERIES BIOLOGIST AND HIS JOB IS TO MANAGE THE STATE'S FISHERIES. LET HIM AND HIS FELLOW BIOLOGIST DO THEIR JOB. IF I WAS A PLUMBER AND EXPALINED HOW I WOULD FIX A LEAKY FAUCET ON THIS SITE SOME OF YOU WOULD CORRECT ME AND GIVE ME YOUR TWO CENTS. LET THE BIOLOGIST BE A BIOLOGIST! GOOD JOB TIM!

close it for the warm water august through jan. and stock less trout. let the alewives rebound if you want big fish.

First things first, I respect Tim's knowledge on the subject. I just question it's practicality, not sure where the data is coming from and also why only 3 lakes are being considered when more are just as capable of holdovers. That being said, I don't recall (could be wrong, not the first time) seeing RI, MA, NY, VT or NH doing anything similiar. CT is in southern New England but not that southern. REELIN n RIDIN brings up a good point as well. I too saw no enforcement at Highland or Twin last year. It is known on Highland that there have been numerous preseason poachers and many boating violations that go on. Fortunately TIPS gets some, but not all. This is not a slam on ENCON. They have precious limited personnel available to deal with current regulations, how are they to deal with 3 months of strict regulations on 3 bodies of water and still patrol river TMA's and other fisheries in just the NW corner alone?

Just read through this thread. One piece of info is the fact that the trout fishing in my part of the state (Candlewood, Squantz, Ball Pond) dies in early July and does not start up again until the early fall depending upon the weather. So it doesn't matter if the trout season is closed on those lakes, no one is fishing for them anyway. The trout either go to a stream or spring hole, suspend in the thermocline or bury themselves in the weed beds where the thermocline hits the shore. They basically stop feeding for the most part. Maybe a bit right at dawn if they can catch a herring easily. Also, it is almost impossible to release one in good shape so a lot die if caught. In August you can go into an area like Hollywile cove where Ball Pond brook enters the lake and watch the brown trout porpoise as they literally jump clear of the water to fill their gills with air/oxygen and then descend straight down to the bottom again. This is a very stressed and dangerous time for them. So Candlewood may be a trophy trout lake but it is not a summer fishery. Closing it to trout fishing would have zero affect on any fisherman, due to water quality issues it is basically closed anyway.

RickL,

I'm not questioning how he does his job. I'm making a suggestion that I think will keep everyone happy. Anyone could request the data through FIA, but it's always nice to have more information on a topic, similar to when they answered questions in the bass thread. I've been on the other end of this topic and I know what it's like. I made the suggestion because it's what we found to be the most helpful to everyone involved (public, biologists, managers). In the end it won't really matter what fishermen say if the data say something different, regardless of public comment periods.

First of all I was so upset when I read this post that i replied without thinking. I just want to clear up that am the first one to admit I'd rather catch 4 or 5 quality fish than 35 dinks. Which has been the norm in the last two years. Last year we only got one fish over 20 inches out of the 6 or 7 trips we took to East Twin. Without checking my log we landed around 200 fish. And only a few in the 17-19 range which we used to get few each outing.

With that said I have to agree with the overstocking and the lack of food.

Is it normal to catch 40-50 trout in one outing? How many trout are in there? I remember we used to mark balls of alewives where the screen went black. I haven't seen that in 5 years. I dunno i just find it hard to beleive that the lack of holdovers is due to fishing in the summer.

Last year we went ice fishing and landed nearly 50 trout in one session. And nearly 40 in another. Were these dead from the summer? Were they just stocked? I don't beleive so.

And lastly I think the minimum length should be increased minimally to 24. I don't know how many people keep a fish just cause it reached the legal limit size of 20 inches. What are you going to do with a 20 inch brown?

This is without a doubt the dumbest thing I've read. You can't use downriggers or leadcore - what about dipsey divers? Or heavy keel sinkers really deep diving plugs?

They can't stop you from fishing - so how will they tell what you are fishing for?

The real killer of trout on East Twin is guys still fishing with live bait in the summer. The mortality rate of fish hooked in this manner is far less than those caught using downriggers. How about restricting it to single hooks on spoons, etc.

This is also going to put more pressure on West Hill and Wonoscopomic - if you have a small enough motor. I strictly troll for trout and I feel the state is just taking this away from us.

Don't ask me for any support DEP!
Let’s take a look at the stocking plan for these three lakes. In 2004 the DEP stocked 4000 adult brown, 5800 adult rainbow and 1000 brown >12” in Crystal for 10,800 total trout.

6600 adult brown, 3000 adult rainbow and 500 brown >12”, 3000 brown yearlings and 2500 adult Brook in East Twin for 15,600 total trout.

8500 adult brown, 1200 adult rainbow and 500 brown >12”, 4900 brown yearlings in Highland for 15,100 total trout.

In 2005 the DEP stocked 4100 adult brown, 8500 adult rainbow and 1000 brown >12” in and 52 broodstock in Crystal for 13,652 total trout.

6700 adult brown, 3680 adult rainbow and 500 brown >12”, 1500 brown yearlings and 2700 adult Brook and 50 Tiger in East Twin for 15,130 total trout.

8100 adult brown, 1200 adult rainbow and 500 brown >12”, 3000 brown yearlings in Highland for 12,800 total trout.


Now I don’t fish Crystal or Highland that often, but I’ve fished East Twin a lot in the last 25 years. So let’s look at that. The Kokanee did so well there because East Twin has a natural limestone base that allows for high plankton or fresh water shrimp numbers which the salmon fed on. The alewives also feed on these and out competed the Kokanee. So the state started stocking large growth sub species of browns and put a limit of 22” on the size of fish and a closed season starting June 1. After a few years, the size of the fish went up drastically because nobody fished for them (because the changes put a lot of people off fishing there) and the state didn’t stock that many fish. It wasn’t until the 1995 season that large fish started to show up. You would see huge schools of alewives boiling on the surface – taking up large sections of the lake – you never see that now.

Then the Zebra mussels got into the lake. They filter the water and remove a lot of the nutrients the fresh water shrimp need. We have seen huge drop off in the amount of alewives – crashes in which whole year’s fry don’t make it. And the growth of the trout has slowed. This is coupled with the DEP stocking more fish than ever there. I mean 15000 trout – most of which aren’t in the catchable range is a lot of fish to compete for a diminishing food supply. Do you think the large starving trout are eating the freshly stocked yearlings – I do? When they put some Kokanee fry in there – do you think the trout ate them?

So what are they going to do? They are going to close the season again. But now there isn’t enough forage for the fish. The 20” current limit hasn’t allowed the fish to grow – so why would closing the season help? They would be much better off letting nature take its course. Allow the 5 fish limit – with one fish over 20”. That would thin out most of the small fish and allow the holdovers to grow, with an occasional large trout. That’s the best they can hope for now with the Zebra mussels. Stopping the use of downriggers and lead core won’t stop people from fishing for trout using other methods.

Buck, I agree 100% on Candlewood and other nw Ct. trout by July 4th getting lockjaw.When the laurel blossoms drop the bite bite drops off. As far as catch and release a single hook is the best method for preventing mortality. End of June - Aug. trout fishing when the water warms is iffy for C n R trout survival. I leave them alone . Just my 40 year observation. Drifting with bait is another killer issue which sure as hell works. After June I look north , out of state for colder water fishing. My philosophy is leave em alone July to Sept. If you get them to the surface the fight is sapped due to warm water. Just my observation over the years. Have my armor on and and bracin myself lol.

I had great sucess this summer fishing trout all summer long. I did not fish East Twin, or Highland. But did put in alot of time on West Hill, and Squantz. Fishing West Hill, and Squantz thru the summer months I caught just as many trout on a surface rod, as with lead core, or the down rigger! I have to say the trout were very hardy even for the hot summer. But... I did fish West Hill a few times at night. And I agree with what was said on here it was a blood bath! Many trout floating everywhere. What I didn't understand was why they were not kept? Especally in the condition they were caught in, bleeding, gut hooked, so on. And, it wasn't even just the fishing, or methods...it was the whole place seemed a circus. Boats running with no lights, drunkin fools yelling #$^@#! I was embarrased one night by some people on the water fishing, as I had my youngest son with me, and we just packed it up after a couple hours and left. Where was the DEP? I wish there were more of them. Only once the whole year did I see a DEP officer on West Hill. I rahter see money go into more personal than into regs that most likely can't / won't be inforced anyhow with out more DEP officers.
I also think Capt. Alewife and Steely Dan have it right! Right on guys!

I enjoy fishing trout all year long.

Guys,
I will be happy to supply the data that
I have as soon as I get a chance. With trout stocking and Opening Day just around the corner, sampling pike in Bantam and walleye in Squantz, I have not been in the office much lately. As soon as things settle down a little I will post the available data.

First, the people that live/visit this lakes in the summer are mostly out of staters and they don't pay to stock the lake anyways so the fishing question is moot. Ice fishing in a lake that has a chance for trophy size fish where there is more potential for release is damaging the colder the outside temp and wind is. The handling of the fish is the key. In the summer is where the problem lies for the most part. Warm water, light line means playing for to long, heavy line and horseing the fish in causes more problems. There isn't any easy solution to solving the problem. I haven't fished E. Twin in sometime but I NEVER saw people catch that many fish when I was there, sometimes 2-3 times a wk. Yes I have caught big fish there and spent the time making sure I never had floaters even in the summer. I guess you could catch 4500 fish, fishing for 30 weeks, every day putting 150 fish in the boat. That's only 50 fish per person. :rolleyes: I have 2 digital Cannon's, a depth temp and speed control, DF fishfinder that can pick out a shiner swimming in 60 ft. of water if anchored, it would be hard to find and catch that many Perch. If you fish with only LG bait/lures you will have a better chance of only LG fish caught. I fish LG baits for Trout in trophy lakes, catch fewer small fish. There isn't any easy answer, find other lakes??? change your summer fishing habits, always nice to catch a trophy but at what expense. The State did a study I was part of with circle hooks, other hooks , different sizes, power bait verses worms, and the end result was the mortality wasn't enough to even worry about. Water temp./depth WILL make a difference for sure along with many other factors already mentioned. If your looking for a trophy then don't look for numbers, change your style. Have I caught trout over 5lbs?yes 6,yes 7,yes 10,only twice. 15 was the biggest. So I'm not blowing smoke. I know Tim B. is a knowledgeable person, dedicated to the Ct. fisheries from what I have seen and heard.

I have been fishing for large brown in Lakeville, E. Twin, and Highland ever since alewives were introduced in these lakes. I quickly learned that large browns are too valuable a resource to kill or to take a chance of them not surviving due to handling or fishing during warm water periods. To achieve this my personal rules are: not to use bait(live or dead),only use single hooks (I only use flys), unhook fish in the water while in the net, if the hook does right out cut the leader,use a soft net (no poly net)only measure fish if it can be done quickly while in the net, no pictures (it takes too long I usually fish alone)and lastly I don't fish for browns from the first week in July until well into October.

"GET A LIFE"? I GUESS YOU REALLY DONT ENJOY FISHING TWIN. WELL I DO AND IF THIS HAPPENS IT'S GOING TO SSUUCCKK!!! I BOUGHT DOWNRIGGERS JUST FOR TWIN AND I GET ALOT OF JOY OUT OF IT SO THINK BEFORE YOU SAY "IT'S ONLY THREE LAKES" BECAUSE IF IT WAS YOUR FAVORITE LAKE YOU WOULD BE PISSED TOO.

twin was awesome when they had restricted season. tons of 6-8lb fish. i primarily night fish with bait in the late spring and fall so im all for a shut down of the season from july to sept. Too many small trout die from summer fishing.

E. Twin has always been my favorite lake. Unfortunately the quality of the fishing has gone down hill since it has been open past May 31 and to ice fishing for trout. Lowering the size limit also didn't help. Zebra mussels reducing the alewife population hasn't helped the trout either. I now spent more time fishing other lakes instead of crying about the proposed regs.

Ct.Fisheries Biologists,

I think if these trout fishing closures fail in the fishing public catching larger trout,you should start stocking less but larger trout.Rather than wasting and stocking an overabundance of fingerlings and yearlings that dont holdover anyway.Rhodeisland and especially Mass.,Maine trout stocking quality puts Conn.'s to shame.The majority would rather catch quality than quantity.

dear mr. horn hunter,
this is my reply to you on this subject.


ready everyone look

"GET A LIFE"? I GUESS YOU REALLY DONT ENJOY FISHING TWIN. WELL I DO AND IF THIS HAPPENS IT'S GOING TO SSUUCCKK!!! I BOUGHT DOWNRIGGERS JUST FOR TWIN AND I GET ALOT OF JOY OUT OF IT SO THINK BEFORE YOU SAY "IT'S ONLY THREE LAKES" BECAUSE IF IT WAS YOUR FAVORITE LAKE YOU WOULD BE PISSED TOO.,

"Coach Paul".

I agree with Coach I'm really looking into hooking some trout at east twin, but throughout this whole year every single dead fish I have seen were caught with minnows. I believe that allowing this law to happen is rediclous, It took me quite a while to make $350 + dollars for samll downriggers and leadcore, etc. Adding this law is a big smack in the face to all the East Twin Fisherman.

I agree about stricter regs being needed on East Twin.But again the proposed regs seem silly at best and un enforcable.

Some natural reproduction of Brown Trout is taking place on East Twin in the creeks and canal,problem is in the fall when this is happening boats are running right through the reds(nests) and destroying them.Snaggers are another big problem.
The main breeding spot is the canal connecting East and West Twin Lakes.I know it will upset people but this area needs to be protected from October to first ice and made off limits to both boat traffic and anglers.Protecting these spawning fish might help offset summer mortality rates by by protecting natural reproduction in the lake.

Many people stop and try to snag these fish from the bridges on Between The Lakes Rd.,seen several large trout this past fall with numerous lures hanging from various parts of their bodies Even caught a big trout ice fishing with a large 2/0 hook stuck in its back,all I can figure is someone tried to snag it when it was in shallow spawning .

Boats try to run through this shallow gravel area with motors trimmed up ,this cause the reds to be blown out ,other people try to paddle or "pole" their boats through this is also destroying reds.

Twin lakes is a real gem and needs to be managed to it's full potential. It is capable of producing large trophy trout along with a nice balance of "pan sized trout".

DEP should also look at the perch problem in East Twin as a problem,days of keeper size perch are gone as well as the guys who used to target them. This has resulted in a huge population of stunted perch. Could be a big reason for the lack of alewives,perch devour alewive juveniles in large numbers , Perch prefer the same depths as trout and alewives.


just my opinions and observations....

I have to say when I read these laws it's like someone has it out for me!!! This is my best fishing with the broomstick & lead core / and down rigging.... it is an art form Releasing the fish take a little care.

Come on.... Maybe a DEP official should actually come out with us to see it in real time..... data & numbers can be crunched anyway you like to suit any purpose.....

I fished East Twin alot last year, and I didn't see anything like that at all.

And there are plenty of big fish there....

they should cut the limits down too. theres no need to have 5 trout per angler. the state has a hard enough time stocking the numbers they do and the quality isn't good.cut the limit to 2 trout per angler.i catch & release almost always so the trout are always there for someone, 5 per angler is way too many.no need that.

I like the DEP's approach to the Farmington River.They made the regs where you are only allowed to keep 2 trout over 12".I just left Riverton and caught an easy dozen trout all just under 12"

These regs will guarantee good fishing for trout under 12" well into the fall.

the DEP doesn't have much to work with money wise and they do a good job. I see reg changes as the only way to make the fishing better.they have plenty of regs on other fish, trout regs should get overhauled too. your seeing more and more bass changes and there are plenty of walleye regs. do something with the trout limits and be alittle more sensible on the amounts that are put in some places.putting 5,000 trout in a trout park thats 15 feet deep is wasting the trout. they will die when the water temps rise.put 1,000 in and cut the limit back, there will be planty and afew extra to go to other lakes. also hold back a bunch of trout so they get 16' or bigger for stocking next year. i know you probably don't have the facilities to hold the extras. just a thought for some quality, not quantity of fish.