Creel limit for Bass

What can be done to change the existing creel limit of 6 bass over 12" for bass.
I was very saddened to see those 6 bass up to 4.5lbs in a recent bass post. This angler also says his partner had 5 more bass up to 5lbs.
All very legal. But in my oppinion the existing 6 bass limit is way outdated.
Maybe a 2bass per day limit. And maybe just like with other game licences a tag that allowes you to keep only one bass over 4lbs per year.

Make all lakes "Bass Management" areas. Meat eaters can still get to keep enough for a few meals.

Im with ya on this subject JimFish....i was really upset by the pics in that post,but it was all legal which reinforces the need for a stricter limit.Some people don't realize just how much harm they are doing to a body of water,til it's too late.People can say what they want,but they did some damage taken them big fish.With the size of them fish,im sure they just put a good dent in the reproduction rate of that Lake X.

Not sure why people are worried about creel limits on bass. Honestly, how many anglers fish for bass for food and actually keep the full limit? I rarely, practically never, have seen an angler with a stringer of bass.

Why, Because we love our sport and do everything we can to protect the object that brings so much joy and happiness into our lives.
As for me? I see nothing wrong with keeping a couple bass now and then just as long as they are being put to good use. I would prefer folks harvested the smaller couple pound bass and released the lunkers. But what can you do?
I there doing it legal, more power to them.
If they were taken from a watershed resivoir then time will catch up to them.

What I meant was that bass are currently plentiful and seem to be doing well from what is posted here as well as what the DEP publishes as far as electrofishing. The current creel limit is not leading to overharvesting so I don't see the need to sound the alarms. In fact, I'm not positive, but hasn't the creel limit been the same for quite a few years now? IMHO bass fishing has improved in the state. I'm sure if there were a downtrend in numbers the limit would be reduced. There has also been a reduction in the amount of meat hunters that fish for bass and an increase in catch and release anglers. Just because there is a creel limit does not imply all anglers or even 25% or less fill it.

Jimfish,

BRAVO!

I would love to see the creel limit on bass reduced to 2 per trip and only one large bass per angler per year. The current regs are very outdated. For example; a group of ice fishermen using live bait can seriously harm a bass population in a small lake or pond in just a few trips. It takes many years for a bass to grow to 4 pounds or more, they are not easily replaced.

Jim, If I can help out in any way let me know. Perhaps collectively we can get something accomplished with the DEP.

Huskybass

Thanks for starting this thread JimFish, it is very timely and I'm glad to see the dialog.

I agree -creel limits should not be that high. The DEP needs to appreciate why most people fish for LMB and SMB.There needs to be common sense limits to counter man's lack of common sense.Think about the lack of limits years ago on the saltwater species of flounder,blackfish and bluefish? I would be willing to join in a petition effort. Thanks Jimfish

What is the usual weigh in limit for number of fish in tournaments?? You can't drop the creel limit too low or you'll be weighing in 2 or 3 fish. Remember, fish in the live well count towards a limit whether you plan on throwing them back or not.

I realize I pissed some people off by deleting some posts yesterday. It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't take some action with certain issues. Bottom line, taking it out on one guy's report can lead to more threads just like it. Before you know it, you have a garbage site.

Now, onto the issue of catch & release bass fishing. I mainly fish for bass. It's my passion. I keep zero fish per year (unless the fish died). I'd love to see some kind of change in bass regulation in CT.

Take some time to read some of the discusson on this thread from last year. There are some really great points:
http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/27/t/001923/p/1.html

I'll see if we can get some comments from someone in the DEP.

I'd have to agree with you guys, the creel limit is way too high and personally I am not a big fan of the taste of Largemouth or Smallmouth bass but that's just my opinion I guess. I think a 2 Bass a day limit would be fair enough so if some people do like the taste they can have some to eat. I'm not against anyone who is leaglly keeping and eating fish according to the current regs, I persoanlly keep and eat a lot of different species and people are within their rights to do so. I do persoanlly think "filling the freezer" with Largemouth is kind of ridiculous but that's just me. All in all I agree we need to make a change to this reg so we can keep and improve on the already great bass fisheries that we have but I'd have to say I don't agree with making people feel like jerks because they keep their legal limit if they choose to do so.

Keith,

The DEP currently makes exceptions for CATCH & RELEASE tournaments with permits so that contestants can weigh in bass over 12" on lakes with a 16" minimum for harvest. Using the same logic, there could be a 5 fish limit per angler during tournies as they are catch and release. I'm not saying it will happen, but it is a possibility.

Huskybass

I'll chime in. Yes it's time to reduce the creel and two fish per outing seems more than reasonable. I also like Huskys idea of only one large fish a year, but I would think it would be next to impossible to regulate. I also believe that as some of our neighboring states have implemented that there should be a closed season during the spawn. This thought is due to the increasing numbers of tourneys being held every year.

Personally unless the fish will die I am a strictly C&R person for all species that I fish for. Yet that does not mean that I have to implore my beliefs onto anglers that are following the rules and keeping limits.

Has there been any info on the bass management lakes? The creel may not be the problem but the size. I can see taking 6 small bass to help with over crowding. My local lakes I can catch 25 small bass but hardly a good sized bass. I have not seen any info if the bass management lakes has been working or not.

:o I missed Jims statement above, maybe Huskys statement of one large fish per annum does have some merit to be be enforced.

Randy C,

Your questions are good ones. This same topic was broached on the ethics page some time ago, but not so direct. There is alot of information needed to make decisions before any agency will likely make a blanket regulation change like this one. They need a goal for the regulation change and the time/money to monitor the changed lakes for ~5 years to determine if the regulation change actually accomplished anything.

This "problem" or "concern" is evident in most popular sport fisheries, and to a degree in hunting. Fish that take longer to mature tend to be more susceptible to overfishing. Whether it's recruitment overfishing or growth overfishing would make a difference. What is the PSD for the lake etc etc.

There is alot more involved in management than just changing the creel limit or size limit for that matter. Changing it could have little to no impact depending on the lake.

I applaud the motivation of you guys to get something done. From a management standpoint I would talk to people to figure out which bodies of water the DEP already has this type of information on, and see if somehow they could be convinced to do trials on a few "lakes of concern" and after a few years determine the outcome.

If you search the bass topics in the ethics section this went back and forth for some time.

Like many of you, I found that post very disturbing as well. More restrictive creel limits could certainly prevent this type of behavior; however, this topic is a slippery slope.

Even if creel limits were reduced to 2 fish per day, what is next? Next....closed season during spawn? Why stop there? How about the imposition of Lake Waramaug like restrictions on the entire state. I have a great proposal that should be implemented immediately, here it is:

Black Bass may only be targeted from June 15 to December 1. During the open season, anglers may fish between the hours of 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Anglers with last name A-K shall be permitted to fish only on even numbered days of the month, while anglers with last names L-Z may only fish on odd-numbered days of the month. Failure to obey these regulations shall result in immediate imprisonment.

In all seriousness, I agree that most people are not taking 6 bass per day to "fill the freezer;" however this type of behavior prompts this type of reaction. Our enemies will use this reasoning and logic as a backdoor to effectively ban tournament fishing if we are not careful with our ranting.

My personal belief: If you have the audacity to come on a quasi-public forum and proudly exhibit your massacre, chastisement should be expected. If we can self-police this type of conduct in a respectful fashion, unnecessarily restrictive regulation won't become necessary.

I'll never bash someone for keeping their legel limit of fish.

When it comes to freshwater bass, I think it takes to long for them to replace themselfs and wouldn't keep any of them myself.

I do agree that the limits are out dated and should be revised. Please realize how long it takes for a bass to reach the 5ld mark. Take a few doz out a yr and in a few yrs. You'll be catching nothing but rats.

Csimone, Where the hell have you been :p . Let me know if you need a partner on candy anytime soon :rolleyes: .

It wouldn't be a bad idea to close it to out of staters during that time. Best fishing of the yr should be kept for ct res. only! We can't fish their lake during that time.

Well much of this information is known, and I guess next year we'll get to see what the bass management lake regulation changes have done to the populations.

I only have a copy of the 2003/2004 data in this report:
Federal Aid in Sport Fish Restoration
F-57-R-22 Annual Performance Report
April 1, 2003– March 31, 2004

In this they state that they will be evaluation the impacts of the regulation changes to the bass management lakes. When this comes out we'll have information to talk about. If the changes worked, perhaps we'll see the DEP make more changes. Remember though, you can't manage for just bass without having potential impacts on other species.

I have touched upon this subject in past posts. You could not legally prohibit out of staters from fishing our waters during the spawn. It would have to be generally applicable regulation or no regulation. That is faulty logic, their lakes are closed to them as well.

Chastise is not the equivalent of "bash."

When I would go fishing with my Dad on our own Lake X, if we caught a bass, on the stringer it went. Now this was 20 yrs ago, before there was a big catch and release mentality. I can honestly say no fish that my Dad caught was wasted. Everything was eaten. He never kept more that his limit.

These fisherman that want to keep a few bass to eat aren't the problem. The problem ones are the people who keep MORE than their limit, or keep undersized fish. They are passing on their bad behaviors onto their kids and others. I personally called the DEP hotline 3 times this year. Twice at Mansfield for guys keeping bass in the slot limit, and once for a guy filling his bucket up with schoolie stripers on the river.

I think that changing the bass limit is a good idea. Would it be so bad to make all lakes bass slot limit? You could keep 2 bass between 12"and 16" to eat, all other fish would be released. Are there other states that have tried this on all the lakes?

You don't have to prohibit out of staters from fishing our waters...just don't grant their permits to hold a tournament. It used to sicken me when I was the tournament director for CT Yankee Bassmasters and even though we got our permit applications in by Oct, we were sometimes denied the dates and lakes we wanted because of the NJ. NY, and MA tourneys that were being held.

The creel should be lowered anyways with an exemption for Tourneys. That would do wonders in protecting bass from the ice harvest too.

I forgot to mention, that DEP publication goes contains some information on catch and harvest rates for some lakes during ice and no ice conditions. Aren't nearly as many fish being taken through the ice as people make it sound sometimes. Not to say it isn't happening, but it might not be as bad as you think

You all not from around here is ya?
We don't take kindly to your kind in this here parts. If I was you I'd be a headin on back back to where it tis you all's come from.
Were in past history did this mentallity take place? Guess the correct answer and win a CTF hat. To late it was the American civil war,
This is America dammit. This train of thought should not even be in anyones minds at this date in time. what if Maine passed a law saying Ct fisherman are no longer allowed to hunt and fish in there state? How would that make you feel
even if you never plan on going there. just the thought of being excluded in america should have you up in arms.

Ok...ill try and do this without offending anyone, but in case I do please accept my appologies I am just expressing an opinion.

Keeping bass is NOT a bad thing. Many lakes become stunted or overrun with numbers of smaller fish. Look at a lot of ponds that do not get fished....I know one for instance that it is a private pond, about 2 miles from a public one almost identical in size, water quality etc. The private pond has VERY few fish over 12 inches, whle the public one produces great numbers of fish over 16 inches. Bottom line is that harvesting bass on bodies of water is not as big of an issue as many would make it seem. The issue is harvesting LARGE fish. I think we could all agree that our issue was not the harvesting of bass, it was the harvesting of the 4 lb fish etc.

I have to agree with pretty much everyone on this post, but you have to look at what findbas said about 20 years ago....there was very little "catch and release" practiced back then...good lord look at any of the pictures or video from the first BASS tournamants...hundrede of 5 lb bass put in a jon boat after the weigh in. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dead fish....and guess what...we can still catch plenty of big fish today.

I think my point is that keeping 10 bass over 4lbs during a weekend at 1 lake WILL make an impact....will ANYONE notice, NOPE!!!

To the creel limit issue, I agree, I think 6 fish may be a little high...but that ios why we have bass management. These lakes are surveyed every year by the DEP, and as soon as a trend in abundance, or lacktherof, is noticed managment begins to discuss regulation changes.

I am not a hunter but have always wondered how the persepctive could be so different. Bass and deer populations are no different, yet the perspective is so different. When hunting deer you target the BIGGEST bucks...why? Well they have the most meat and have big antlers for show and tell. What does that do to a population? Well it allows the smaller deer to get bigger by allowing them to fill the space as dominant male, alloting them more resources. Thow hunters know how important thinning the heard can be, a population with too many individuals becomes smaller in size, thus creating health, disease problems.

The same occurs in bass populations...too many fish create smaller average weights and health issues....fish kills become more prevalent and overall population health declines.

OK...well I have to tie up my rambling...I think we are semi-overeacting. Yes we all want our natural resources protected...are there ways to do that , yes. bodies of water are managed on a water-specific basis, meaning that overall regualtions are not the best answer. What may be good for one bodie of water is terrible on another....bottom line is that a lot of factors are tae into account when regulations are made, including angler harvest...and DEP does everything they can to ensure that we will be catching fish years from now just as we are today.

CTFreediver, thanks for the site. those are some funny pics haha.

Jimfish let me know if I can help as I was one of the people that had his post deleted yesterday. To say the least i was terribly disturbed by the post and am willing to help to change this limit if possible.

Just some food for thought: Without catch and release we probably wouldn't be looking at the two great bass photos on the homepage of this site.

Selective harvest is a great idea. Taking your limit of large bass to "fill the freezer" can have substantial consequences, especially on a small body of water.

Although it is legal to keep 6 bass it sure made me sick to see the picture of all those nice bass layed out on the ground !! Maybe Dusty can fill us in on the average growth weight in this area of the country. I'm all for the creel limit being changed to a lower number.

Why is that everyone gets so emotional over LMB/SMB and never over striper/fluke/crappie/blackfish etc...? I know I have kept other species of fish for the freezer(never lmb/smb), but why all this over bass? I just don't get it. Are bass the chosen fish or something?

An interesting question occurred to me while reading this post…

Not a lot of people target bass for food. A lot of people target bass for tournament fishing and although they practice and preach catch & release a percentage of the bass brought to the weigh in aren’t going to survive. I wonder who is really taking/killing more big bass in the lakes?

I love bass fishing just as much as any of you if not more and seeing pictures of fish of that quantities and quality getting ready to go under the blade just kills me. I’m sure that is why most of you got so upset it was not to bash anybody. We all know that he was stocking his freezer and he says that he doesn’t keep them a lot so that’s not so bad but to me pan fish are the best tasting freshwater fish. The best thing about that is there is no shortage on them, and won’t be any in the future.
I don’t know if we want to get too carried away with this, there are plenty of states around us that have harsh rules for bass fishing. The first state that pops into my head is New York. During the spawn you can’t fish for bass. There is hard evidence saying that fishing during the spawn will not hurt the fisheries but that is the law and there are no changes that I can see in the future. I don't want to see a little thing like this hurting something we all passion so much.
Tournament fishing makes it better some times. If the DEP was to lower the limit it will affect tournaments. I know there is times when the DEP will give exemptions on bass management lakes but there are times when they will not. I think they are the months of July and August. It was said earlier that most people don’t keep there bass very often, and I hope it stays the same. If bass were as targeted as trout or some of the other game fish then I would have to say a change is needed, but as of right now I don’t feel lowering the limit is the answer.

Gentlemen
I didn't start this thread to bash anyone. But I do think it is time for a change.

I know the DEP monitor this forum. And the more reply's the better.

In 1996 Lake Mamanasco got rid of all the weeds that have been there for years. I caught 2 bass over 5lbs in one day. It was like a field day the rest of the season. I saw big bass being taken out every time I was there. The place is now overrun with runts.
Now it is bass managment and no one wants to keep bass under 12" So what's the answer?

I've also seen some meat guys keeping some nice bass at Hatch Pond.

Someone said we used to keep a lot of bass 20yrs ago. And so did I. Usedto have a big fish fry at the end of the season. But when I saw all the bass that was caught very legally. I told my friends it was time to stop.
Today there are many more knowledgeable anglers then 20 or 30yrs ago. And a few meat eaters can decimate a small lake or pond like Mamanasco or Pierrepont.

When I started fishing Pierrpont over 10yrs ago. There was a good year class of 1 1/2 to 2lb bass that would just about rip the rod out of your hands. One day when I got there. There were about 15 chopped off heads of bass in the water by the launch. Now for the most part. You have a lake full of runts. It is not legal to throw the fish heads in the water. But with 3 people. It was legal for the amount kept.

I'm getting away from the subject. I'm not against keeping a few bass for the table. But I am against keeping lunkers and saying there are a lot of them in the lake. Because there are not.
That is why I would like to see a restriction on keeping bass over 4lbs And a change in the creel limit.

DAS, a lot probably has to do with the size of the freshwater environment itself -- it's limited. Life in a small lake or pond is much different than the life of a fish in the open ocean. Whether it's over-fishing or something like water quality -- the effects are magnified in a smaller body of water.

It's probably a combination of all of that, plus the fact that the bass is one of the most popular game fish in the U.S.

High Growth rates alone doesn't mean you will definitely have good fisheries, nor do low growth rates equal a bad fishery, no matter what the species. Typically slot limits are put in place to protect a size class that is most vulnerable, but other factors need to be considered as well.

I believe one of the main paramaters that the DEP looks at is the number of years for a fish to reach quality size (30 cm I think). There is a scale from fast to slow and all kinds of things between. Above average quality size is anywhere from 3 to 3.3 years. Looking at the published DEP numbers for lakes and rivers in CT, many of your lakes are right in that range, some lower, some higher.

There could be so many other thing influencing the fish in the lakes. A creel limit of 1 may have no more impact than a creel limit of 10 if the limiting factor in the lake isn't related to mortality at all.

Personally, I'm interested to see the results of the 2005 data from the bass management lakes. I'm assuming (we all know what happens) that along with the 2005 data and initial conclusions the DEP will also present data all the other factors influencing the LMB. Also, changing too many regulations at once (slots, seasons, creel) can blur the results.

Das
Stripers were defestated by overharvest. And it just now have recovered by special regulations. 25yrs ago there were no regs for flatfish , porgys , blackfish and many other salt water species. But now there are.
Bass is not the chosen one. It is a resorce we would like to keep and to improve upon.

This is not a bash thread. It is a thread to show the DEP how we feel.
And it is open for some constructive ideas.

I can't belive the $#@^%@$ storm I started over my day of fishing....OK here goes....

First what I mean't by "Filling" my freezer was exactly what you saw 6 FISH! ALL YEAR and 6 Fish....yes 2 of them were over 4lbs 1 of them would have died because he swallowed the lure way down and either would not have been able to eat if I left it in, or would have died from me trying to remove it. The others were 3lbs or less. OK so I DID take 1 fish out of the lake over 4.5lbs.....If the limits were changed like everyone wanted, then I WOULD STILL BE LEAGALLY WITHIN MY 1 BASS limit! Also changing limits wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Most people that take fish to eat don't do it legally anyway, I.E. Slot limits, amount, size etc. Those people should be raked over the coals not me. And yes my friend DID catch 5 bass himself...BUT HE RELEASED ALL OF THEM, he does not like Bass to eat. I agree with Dusty, I know some of you are hunters and choosing between a 12 point buck or a 2 point buck I can pretty much determine which one you'd take the shot at, and THERE AINT NO CATCH AND RELEASE IN HUNTING!!!

I've been fishing for well over 30yrs and grand total I have probablly honestly only kept 30 fish....that's 1 fish a year!!! I know that horrifies some of you, and you hate my guts and think I should be banned from even being in the same room as you. But to tell you the truth you know what was a little upsetting to me? I moved up here from SC in 1999, I fished down there all the time tourney etc....99.9% of the fish I caught were catch and release (except if I was Catfishing)I ran across this board, and posted for some fishing helps/tips since the Bass fishing up here is a lot different from down there. Yes I got a few replies, and tips from some really great guys, Dusty, Booty, Tall1, Big Beave, Cajun, Wonka, Blue Fox....and sorry if I missed anyone, but did I get a response to my post like I did this one? NO!!! Some of you guys call yourself anglers and promote the sport but you couldn't open your mouths to help a new person out, but you can sure rake him over the coals....sad. Anyway my rant is over....it's out of my system.

I'd say what's even the use of keeping largemouth bass when they really should just be considered a fun, sporty fish to fish for instead of a fish that should be eaten.

Rebel, don't take it to heart....I know some people are upset about it but it is only because they care about the fisheries and want to ensure the ability to catch fish in the future...its a perspective thing here.

People are VERY protective of what they have here...its not like South Carolina, Florida, Texas...shoot even NY, it is a tiny state that has a limited number of waters. I think what people are overlooking is the FACT that angling mortality from catch and release accounts for more death of bass than does allotted harvesting. yes, I said FACT. If anyone wants proof of that one I will mail you the reports I have from 17 different states stating so. Not to mention the destruction that angling nesting bass has on the populations....caveman, your gonna read that article weather you like it or not . Your statement
is incorrect on two points, one that angling fish during the spawn will not hurt the fisheries...I am quoting a report from the Michigan DNR wher they say that Catch and Release during the spawn results in "decreased number of spawinings and increase number of nest abandonments. This will lead to reduced fry production, and could ultimately lead to reduced bass recruitment " I have 6 other scinetific papers stating that angling during the spawn DOES have an effect on the number of fry entering the system.

two, NY is one season from implementing the new regulation where Catch and Release will be allowed year round, basically leaving everything in place which exsists but making the closed season from Nov 30 till the 3rd Sat in June Catch and release only.

I guess it is an issue that will never die...i say be easy on the "don't kill any big fish," because I can GUARANTEE that those of us who have fished a lot throughout the season solely as catch and release have killed just as many, and in many cases, more fish than Rebel did on that one day.

There is no question that over-harvest is a huge issue which can potentially cripple a system...but I don't think what he did will "put a dent" in the population....we have a responsibility as outdoorsmen to preserve our natural resorces, I just think we need to look more critically at the season being open during spawning than the creel limits. Just my opinion, please nobody take offense to it...it is meant with the best intentions.

I think it must be a North-South Thing.

I was on Lake Erie last year and there was a big group of fisherman from Missouri fishing for smallmouth. Probably about 12-15 guys. Each one of them kept his limit EVERY day of their trip...and these were 3-6 pound smallmouth every day. I found it disgusting, but it was business as usual to them. In fact, they thought everyone at the motel was keeping their catch. They offered to help clean our fish every day. (I don't think they ever figured out we were not keeping any)

Just a thought......If you want to fill up your freezer next year without having to actually kill any bass yourself, you should come on down to a Federation tournament on Candlewood and ask for the fish that have expired after the weigh in. A couple years ago, my father took home about 20 fish that did not make it that day. We had bass all winter that year.

Jon,

Thanks for that tip, that's a good idea, free fish and I don't have to kill any. I fished a few tourneys this year and saw some nice bass floating dead on the water from guys that dumped them before weight in, to me that is a shame.....

Any yeah I think it is a North South thing, when I lived down there and I went fishing those guys would look at me like I had 2 heads and 5 eyes when I hooked a nice 5-6lber and then let him go, thought they were gonna string me up...now I get up here and feel like I'm gonna be strung up for keeping 6 fish....can't win...

There is very good research that shows that catching bass off a bed reduces survival of the progeny in the bed. However, no studies have expanded this to look at population impacts of such mortality. I think it will be difficult to prove either way. There are so many other mortality bottlenecks that can compensate for higher mortality at any particular life stage (e.g., egg, yolk sac, etc.), which makes it very difficult to evaluate.

It’s funny, because in the south there are a ton of anglers that actually target fish on beds on many lakes, but recruitment is not limiting in those systems (e.g., bass populations are at or near the expected carrying capacity).

In the north, there is a traditional thought that fishery managers need to protect fish during spawning, but there isn’t really any evidence for that. There are a lot of crazy rules up here that are based on tradition that are not backed up with any science (closed seasons, regs against trolling) . In Wisconsin, you can’t cull fish (trade live fish out of a livewell for a larger fish after having a limit), but even their own data shows that very few anglers ever catch a limit, so the number of fish culled is miniscule in the big picture. I think sometimes people get very anxious about potential individual fish deaths, when in the old days we would have eaten every one we caught anyway.

The evidence in the literature certainly doesn’t suggest that fishing during the spawning season has limited recruitment.

It’s possible that bed fishing is limiting populations, but the evidence if you look at black bass populations across the country, they are better now than they were in the 80’s, and I think it’s mostly due to very high catch and release. There are examples where people harvest bass, but overall, F (fishing mortality) for bass has declined greatly. People used to catch them off the bed and eat the adult. Now we catch them off the bed and release them.

Dusty, help me out if you know some, but I know of no examples of recruitment overfishing in black bass populations.

The major problem or difference between north and south bass management is the fact that the north is way behind with regards to research of black bass. Many of the regulations are outdated and more traditional than anything else. We're starting to look at bass specifically now up here, so hopefully we'll figure this out.

recruitment overfishing??? Not sure I completely understand what you are looking for??? If you clarify maybe I can be of better help. Your points are correct about the south and north and the recruitment issues....and correct about the lack of studies relating decreased fry and decreased population numbers...

Sorry, I don't want to get into the technical definitions of these things, but they're important to understand. Especially when it comes to overfishing, most people think about recruitment overfishing when growth overfishing is more likely to occur (deals with maximum yield).

Basically recruitment overfishing is when you remove adult fish out of the population so that the adult population remaining or spawning biomass is reduced to a point that it doesn't have the ability to re-up the population again. This would be in theory what people are concerned with when they see pictures of dead bass. I'm not aware of any lakes where this is a real issue for black bass, period.

Growth overfishing is when animals are harvested at a size smaller than the size that would produced the maximum yeild per recruit.

yea, I see now....had to go back to my textbook. You seem as if you know a lot of these fisheries terms. I am usually the one throwing these around . I am in my second year of study towards my masters degree in fisheries management so its not often I have someone make me look back in the books . Yes, recruitment overfishing does occur....but in my experience it occurs on small bodies of water...such as Mamanasco as Jimfish stated....but again a lack of research and positive determination that the overfishing has caused the decline in stocks...

What separates a sport fisherman from a commercial fisherman is the fact that sport fisherman fish for FUN not for food. Please i can understand somebody keeping a middle size or a couple of small fish once or twice a year but that right there is crazy. i mean i dont know how big that pond is but i dont agree with "PLENTY of big bass left" argument at all.
Dusty you seriously need to study some fish biology before making some of the comments you have made.

That happens BECAUSEEEE of OVER harvest of BIG FISH not under harvest of fish in a lake.You dont have to look too far. you just have to open up the DEP's lakes and pond maps guide and read a few pages in the begining.
And please Dusty and Bass rebel. i dont see any sense in the deer population comments or comments which say he did that he does that he keeps ten he keeps the big deer, he jumps into a well so i ll do the same....
I am not for those who say dont keep a fish at all. no.BUT 5 fish of that size in one day is too much. its not about how many you kept in 30
years or a hundered. its how many did you take from the current living one's in one day and what effect THAT has on the lake.remember you dint keep those 30 from one lake in 30 years.
enjoy your fish

So, we have established at times many fish die after weigh ins for tournaments. Is that any different than an angler keeping fish of the size Bass Rebel did for consumption? If all of you are hoping that by throwing back all 4+lb bass you will have a lake full of lunkers dream on. These fish will grow to an extent then taper off at a uniform size and perhaps lose weight after a time due to them lacking forage. They likely will wind up eating their own young as forage. 4lb plus bass require a good amount of food and a small body of water would quickly be exhausted. Far as I can surmise slot limits are to allow for a healthy base of fish to be established to fill in for bass that are removed from the population so you don't go from all lunkers to all smalls. Not all bass will get that large.

FWIW the issue on hunting is that larger deer are preferred because they are older, have already passed on their good genes and are more prone to disease and injury than their younger counterparts.

study fish biology....I have over 40 credits of fisheries and fish management, and no stunting does not happen because solely because of overharvest of big fish, there are a number of factors that may cause it, one could be overharvest of large fish, one could be under-harvest of fish in general...too many fish competing for limited resources results in slower growth rates and number sof smaller fsih with fewer big fish, either way the system ends up with overcrowding...

Don't degrade this thread by turning it into personal things. You are absolutly correct, overharvest of large fish potentially creates stunting and is the number one cause of stunting...but if you look at what I posted you will clearly see that I make it clear that harvesting the large fish is the issue.

Trust me, I am educated enough to stand by the things I say....and the deer comments were not meant as a you did it so i will do it....they aare attempts at making comparisons between populations and selective harvesting...take them or leave them.

well stated keith.....and your point about deer

Could be stated about bass in many situations. I will be the first to say, and have been in the past, that larger fsih are the MOST important to any system. But the truth is that the larger bass "have already passed on their good genes and are more prone to disease and injury than their younger counterparts. "

So either way its a balancing act, kill a big fish because it has done it's job and passed on genes that are beneficial to a system and bound to get sick at some point, or don't kill it because it potentially can contribute more to the population. It's been debated for years and will continue to be for years....

Some people might not like me "hogging" this thread....but I couldn't be having more fun. Debates like this are the core of all scientific research and discovery, and do nothing but make people think....fantastic that Jimfish started this and I hope everyone can get something out of it. But on the otehr hand, feel free to tell me to shut up!!!

Dusty,

Thanks for taking some of the heat off me...LOL taking one for the team. Here is something that might help your research. (And those of you that were sickened or hated seeing those bass close your eyes and don't read ) Dusty, the fish I caught the one that had the lure ALL THE WAY in its mouth past the gills would have probably died correct? Secondly when I cleaned the fish they had absolutely nothing ZILCH in their stomach, so could this be from overcrowding and not having enough food in the system to support them? Maybe that's why I caught them...they were hungry......Also saw schools and I mean 8 or more yellow perch atleast 12" or bigger chasing my lure....so too many larger fish is not good for the system either correct? Just wondering.

Lure in the throat...VERY good chance of future death.....no food in the stomach, not uncommon this time of year, but they looked pretty fat, so i would have to say that they weren't missin many meals. I would have to say that having too many big fish...not a crucial issue unless there are enough to deplete the forage base enough as to make food scarce, its dynamic so it would take a caouple of bad year classes in the panfish populations as well....not common, but potential for ocurrence.

Like several of the more seasoned posters (notice I didn't say older) like myself I can remember when the fishing was really good on lakes like Lilly, Candlewood and yes even Zoar back in the late 70's .Not what some are calling good now but REALLY GOOD. I have pics of tournies that had the winning fish strung up on a "Lunker Board" Back then we didn't realize what the impact of killing our resource was going to have 20 years later. Thankfully people were educated in time and we were able to turn it around. Can you imagine what we would have now if back then we didn't stop the killing of bass. We would all be standing in streams fishing for 6 inch trout and our grandkids would be asking "Grandpa what's a Bass" and we'd have to take out a pic and show em/her cause there would be so few around that they would probably never even be targeted for sport.
People that need to harvest fish for the freezer need to be educated to the harm they are actually doing. I see a pic of 6 DEAD 4 plus pound fish and just get disgusted that some guy feels the need to kill trophies like that Take 2 lber's for the freezer and leave the big ones. The diff in meat isn't that much but the difference it makes for our future of bass fishing is enormous
Im just glad that an 8 lber was lucky enough to get free or she'd be DEAD too.

Did any of you ever stop and think that the reason that you aren't seeing more large fish caught ISN'T because of an occasional fish being taken, but due to the LARGE amounts of tournements being fished? There are and I wouldn't say vast, but large amounts of 4+ pounders in most lakes in CT, but after being hooked and brought in they are a lot more reluctant to take another lure. Correct me if I'm wrong (Dusty I'm sure your following this thread) but wasn't there a study that proved that bass learn, and once they are hooked by certain types of lures they learn to avoid them? Also was there ever a study done to see how long it takes for a fish to be recaptured? Yes I agree with you that taking a large amount of large fish out of a system is not good, and everyone is up in the air about me taking a fish. Jon was the only one that was productive enough in his posts to give me the idea to check after the federation tourney to get the bass that wouldn't make it after a weigh in. In retrospect though think about it, he said that his father had about 20 fish a couple of years ago after a weigh in there. Which is worst me taking ONE BASS, or just one tourney out of MANY where there are 20+ dead bass after weight in, and you can be sure those fish were in the 3+ lb category. I've only fished a few tourneys up here 7-8 at the most but I can distictively remember atleast 2 that I fished where on the way back to weigh in I saw dead bass in the water where some "C&R" angler throw them out to not lower their score. In the snowball tourney there was a dead bass that had to be atleast 3lbs dead in the water (Would have scooped it out if I could) and people actually laughed about it at the weigh in saying it was the only bass they saw all day....to me that is disgusting. I think what Dusty said in his post is probablly correct that the increased tourneys are actually doing worst for the size/population of the bass then me taking my one fish. The creel limit change doesn't matter, if you change it to 2 fish limit, it doesn't matter, most people that fish and keep fish on a REGULAR basis don't do it leagally anyway. I took 6 fish, one would have more then likely died anyway. That's 6 fish for the entire year, and only because IT WAS ONLY the end of the season and I haven't caught squat up until now even in a range to try and keep. I enjoy the taste of bass, and I don't think 6 fish kept for the entire year is out of the question. Usually I don't catch anything up here in CT, but when I fished in SC, I'd keep an ocassional 1.5-2lber which in the Santee Cooper Lake System 175K Acres is a DROP IN THE BUCKET. The only fish I'd target to keep on a regualr basis was catfish, and I don't hear anyone complaining about me doing that. Yes the bass need to be protected, yes something needs to be done to protect our resources for the future, but it needs to happen from all sides I.E. recreational boating, pollution, stricter enforcement for those that do not LEGALLY take fish, and YES maybe even less tournements per year on a lake, but overall I think the DEP is doing a good job. So get off my case about me keeping the fish I did, it was legal. Most of those complaining won't even fish Lake-X because there is no way to even remotely get your $30+ bass boat into it. It is a shame though, a shame that the sport has come to this, I.E. all the posts I've read "Cheating in Tourneys", "Dead fish after Tourneys" etc. I fished Tourney's this year and spent some money doing it and got $0 back for fishing them, do you hear me complaining? NO I had a good time, met some great folks and learned. I for one plan to try and fish alot of the tourneys next year and one thing I am going to POSITIVELY do is make sure I can do everything in my power to provide as stressless environment for any fish I catch. Hopefully next year I can outfish some of you Sorry if I YET AGAIN pissed off someone else, just tired of the whinning....

Some great information on this thread . Really interesting to read .


a bit off topic
anyone see the new Gerber Tool commercial about bass ? It starts out talking about how bass change color to match water clarity(shows various footage of live bass in differant conditions) and than it says there favorite color for bass is golden brown showing some bass sizzling in a frying pan.I thought it was pretty funny but does nothing to help promote catch and release.

VegaX1 and Dusty,

Just a few points. Over harvest of large fish doesn't stunt a population. In theory if you harvested large fish to the point that they couldn't replenish the system then you would have recruitment overfishing, which I still believe is not documented for any black bass fishery. Stunting of populations is usually due to limited resources, not removing large fish. Think about it in simple terms. If your lake can support 20 bass over the 7 lb mark and you remove 12 of those bass, you won't stunt the rest of the fish. More fish will fill that niche.

Also, it's tough to compare fish and deer when it comes to reproduction. Granted a 7lb bass has already passed on her good genes, but it's the fecundity of the fish that make them so beneficial to the population. A doe usually has 2 fawns, but can range from what?...1-3. A 7lb female bass may produce 2 million eggs (this is just a hypothetical number, I'm not familiar with their SPR/fecundity stuff). It's the sheer number of eggs produced that is important.

And lastly, something that has already been brought up, and you can argue it all you want but you would be wrong. The mortality in relation to tournaments and catch and release is much greater than harvest in most black bass fisheries...period.

This is the most critical point of this whole thread...i have been attempting to make it clear. Again, I have a large stack of scientific papers illustrating that close to 10% of all fish caught in a tournament will not survive the following week. Doesn't seem like a lot but a a 20 boat tourney could easily catch 60 fish to be weighed in...there are 6 fish gone. And the study also makes it perfectly clear that the fish not surviving are the biggest ones brought to weigh-in

I also have work done on catch-and-release mortality numbers and that has been estimated as high as 4%, but during summer months it reaches 8%....again doesn't seem like a lot but how many of us regular anglers caught 150 bass this season....if you did thats at least 6 dead fish, and again its the larger fsih that die.


And mycept, overharvest of large fish does potentially cause stunting, that is one of the fundamental processes in fisheries management. I am taking this directly from the DEP lakes and ponds book, but could have just as easily taken it from my fisheries managemnt textbook "A decline in numbers of large bass due to harvest by anglers often results in an increase in numbers of forage fish, which include small panfish as well as young bass. High densities of small fish competing for a limited food supply causes the growth rates to decline. It then takes much longer for both the panfish and the bass to achieve sizes that would be of interest to anglers. The end product is a condition called stockpiling--an overabundance of small, slow-growing fish and few large ones. the most extreme situation occurs when overcrowding is so great fish become stunted. In these cases, fish grow so slowly that they never reach sizes desired by anglers. Stunting is more common is small ponds where fish abundance is very high, but predators and food are limited."

Since Rebel has stated there is no way to get a large boat on this body of water it is fair to assume that the pond/lake is smaller in size, so the potential for stunting is there. do I think there is any way what he did will create a stunted population, NO WAY. If 30 people go out and do what he did....YES. Bottom line, keeping BIG fish----not the best thing you could do to a system, but not the end of the fishery as we know it.

I posted this in an older thread. I thought I'd post it again here in this thread.

VERY good Mitch...i have been referring to that same article during my posts here, just never though of scanning it it. VERY IMPORTANT STUFF!!!

Dusty,

Removing the large fish doesn't stunt the fishery, unless you are removing the majority of these large fish, and you have large numbers of other fish, and limited food or shelter. There are alot of factors beyond the removal of large fish. That is a big assumption that the large fish aren't being replaced by other slightly smaller fish. Again, it isn't the removal of the fish as much as it is the other characteristics of the pond or lake. The limted or overabundance of other fish and prey items is what will cause the stunting of the population.

My experiences are mostly in the south, and this isn't an issue. I could see this happening on farm ponds, but I don't see it happening these days on any moderate to large body of water.

Perch do the same thing, and are stunted very often due to competition for food resources. Overharvest of black bass at the magnitude needed to achieve what you've described (granted this may be possible in a small pond) isn't occuring.

In my previous post that is what I meant about it being related to limited resources. Too many fish, not enough food, not enough shelter etc etc.

See, that is where the issue comes up...in the south resources are NOT limited. In many northern lakes and ponds resources are limited. In my travels around NY as a DEC employee I personally fished/electrofished/netted 116 lakes and ponds. Stunting DOES happen in our northern lakes. I had one fish for example that was 16 years old and 11.5 inches long. This lake (107 acres) just so happens to have a fish and game club on it that has a fish fry every Sat night. This club has been in existance for over 40 years and they have had the tradition for many of the 40 years. Pictures clearly illustrate that there used to be many large fish in the lake, but they have overharvested the crap out of the big ones, and now all that is left are hundreds of thousands of small panfish and bass. The old timers are complaingin to the DEc that they can't catch any big fish now, and want them to do somethign about it, but they refuse to keep a bass under 15 inches because its difficult to fillet and get enough meat for ameal. A CLEAR CUT example of overharvesting large fish.

Thats also very extreme and likely not the case in many other places. You're right that is a definite example of overharvest of large fish.

Also, 16 years old and 11.5 inches. Do you have a report or data on the age frequency for this lake? I'd be very interested to see this, and I know some others who would be as well.

There are two lakes in connecticut that i would be willing to say are stockpiled or stunted. Wyassup and Middle Bolton. I have scales from fish at both and am going to get age frequency data as soon as I get a chance.

Stockpiling is not overly common, but it does happen and can potentially happen to many of our smaller lakes/ponds.

I should have the age/frequency data fro the NY lake, let me go back through my files. The only report written was for the Mercury contamination, thats why we collected fish from each lake (sampled).

Are you doing age length keys for mortality and age frequency information? You have to be filling all your size slots, so I assume you aren't able to do that on these lakes?

Dusty,

Earlier in this thread you said something like "if ten large bass were removed from a pond/lake it would make an impact, but nobody would notice". I would think that the fishing for large bass would become much tougher without those 10 bass available. How many bass over 4 pounds are there in an average 200-300 acre lake in CT? I would think that 10 would make up a noticeable percentage?

I am not taking issue with your statement, just trying to learn something. Thanks in advance.

Huskybass

Its tough to come up with an average for something like that Husky, but it's probably more than you would think. You'd need to see their age/length key information to do that and of course it would be an extrapolation. An interesting question if they can answer it though.

Yea, its defiantely WAY more than you would think. You fish Amos a lot right....the DEP found 15.5 bass over 15 inches per HOUR of electrofishing. Now a 15 inch bass is not quite 4 pounds but, and hour of electrofishing samples about 500 yards of shoreline and NO deeper water. If they can get 16 per hour just on shore (under 5 feet) think of how many they didn't get. It is next to impossible to determine how many there truly are...but it is a lot more than any of us anglers are willing to believe

If i had to make an educated guess, 10 bass over 4 lbs in a 200 acre lake with average production and fish densities....at most 2-5% of the fish over 4 lbs were killed.

I agree with you csimone. I'm all for people keeping their catch if they want. I just like discussing fisheries

csimone, for a guy holding a beautiful bass, I'd think you'd be interested in preserving that opportunity for the future.

I agree with you that we're not going to get anywhere by criticizing one guy for keeping some legal fish. Believe me, I'm with you 100% on that.

However, to say that this discussion is a bunch of guys complaining is missing a opportunity to really learn something. A lot of good points are being brought up.

I'm hoping for a statement from the DEP soon to add even more to the discussion.

These type of discussions are the heart and sole of all scientific knowledge....it makes people think about issues and concepts outside what they have experience with. No matter what comes about from this thread, discussions like these could NEVER be a bad.

theres nothing wrong with educating mitch. its the peolpe that have nothing better to do than cry.and if I could turn back time I would have kept that fish. so what. so I could see her every day on my wall. but anyways, people such as yourself ,dusty, husky, and the others who have alot of education under their belts have alot to offer people. but when people start threatening, (yes threatening), and makeing remarks about where people are from, and all the other stupid remarks they say, they should be banned from the site.

another thing, if the largemouth was in in any danger, the DEP would change the limits. but their not, so they wont.

No one is perfect, and I'm certainly not a genius, but if I started booting people who made "stupid" comments we'd only be talking to, well, I don't know who would be left here.

I reserve the boot for the real a-holes. It's pretty clear when someone crosses the line and/or doesn't grasp the concept of how to participate in a fishing website.

Seriously, there are obviously a lot of passionate bass fishermen on the site. With that passion comes emotion and all kinds of comments come out.

In the end, hopefully we can look back on a thread like this in the future and identify some good things that came of it.

Certainly, freshwater gamefish need to be managed. Whether the current system is OK as is, horrible, or could use improvement, I'd like to know for sure.

I really want to see what the DEP has to say about bass management in CT.

Reading the quotes from the fisheries staff, one thing seems to stand out. Anglers in CT need to better understand how a slot limit is supposed to work, and that keeping bass isn't a bad thing. Lets take Mansfield Hollow for example. I know that when I go to Mansfield I can catch many bass under 12". Should I be keeping my limit of those fish? Legally you can do so. There does seem to be a great number of these smaller fish.

Im my experience if you catch a bass over 5lbs from Mansfield you are very lucky. By keeping those small fish, am I really doing the fishery a favor? Would this really promote bigger fish?

Chris is right when he says "if the bass was in danger, the DEP would change the limits." The DEP works tirelessly to preserve our fisheries. Most every fishable body of water is sampled at some point, and many of hem are sampled yearly. Trends in abundance and size distribution can be determined and managemnt plans are implemented....many placed such as Mansfield are "bass management" lakes for a reason, because something is ocurring within the system to make action necessary. I believe that DEP is in the process of formalizing the results of some of the bass management lakes..I will look into what I can obtain relating to the bass management and future initiatives.

According to the last report, 2005 sampling was going to start looking at the impacts of the bass management regulations. We'll just have to wait and see

For the people that say that tournaments are more damaging to the fisheries than a few people keeping fish every now and then are 110% correct!! Last year I had to do a research paper on tournament mortalities and what you will find is disgusting. The biggest reason is tournament fishermen don’t know how to treat there fish. I can count on one hand the number of people that do most of the things that the biologist say to do. Some of the easiest thing to do is to keep your live well pump running at all times, use ice to keep the water cool because cold water can hold more oxygen than warm water can, and add keep alive powder. In the research that I did it said to put salt in the live wells, I’m not sure but I think that the powder has salt in it.
A study was done in Florida a couple of years ago that had two groups.
Group #1 added ice and salt and used recalculating aeration. Fresh water was added two or three times during the day to flush out toxic ammonia.
Group #2 pumped fresh water through their live wells all day but did not use ice or salt, all anglers ran live-well aerators continuously.
Mortality of fish from Group #1 using ice, salt & recirculation averaged only 14%. Group #2 using constant fresh-water flow-through averaged a mortality of 18%.
Summer time is the worst time for tournament mortalities. This is some of the results that I found on line I can’t find the bibliography to give you the exact website but this is hard evidence that doing tournaments in warm water is worse than in cold water.

January 27-30 2004 -1462 Largemouth Bass were officially weighed-in. Initial mortality was recorded and 19 were brought to the weigh-in dead. Delayed mortality was very low only one fish died in the pens. Also there was 20 fish that had expanded swim bladders threw out the tournament that had died during the second and third day of the tournament. Water temperature was 56 degrees.
February 21-22, 2004 - largemouth bass were officially weighed-in. There was four fish that was initially brought to the weigh-in dead. And again delayed mortality was very low no fish died in the pens. In this tournament they did aside experiment in witch they “fizzed” the fish. Fizzing is a thing when they puncture the swim bladder witch allows them to deflate there swim bladders so they can swim upright again. The swim bladders are needed to puncture because they were caught in depths greater man 30 feet. What happens when fish are caught that deep is they are brought up threw the water column so fast they are unable to deflate there swim bladder on the way up. Water temperature was 58 degrees.
March 26-28, 2004 - 904 largemouth bass were officially weighed-in. No fish were brought to the weigh-in dead40 fish were caught and kept in the pens and 38 fish were in the pens that was electro shocked. . In the fish that was held in the pens only one fished died. This tournament they used electro shocking and only one of fish died in the pens. Water temperature was 66 degrees.
July 10 -11, 2004. - 163 largemouth bass were officially weighed-in. Initial mortality rate was much higher I this tournament in this one there was 17 that were brought to the weigh-in dead. In the pens 94% of the tournament caught fished died. (Two lived) and all 20 electro shocked fished died Water temperature was 87 degrees.

Interesting facts Caveman, you do that study or did you run across it? Was that in CT? Also from what your saying about tourney fishing I am already doing what I can, I leave my recirc/aerator on the whole day, and I put treatment in the water as well. So if I add Ice from my cooler during the day, that is about as much as I can do right? Also when I fished in SC during tourneys if I landed a fish that was majorly hooked, I would cut the barb off the hook (Yes ruin the lure if I had to) to prevent further damage to the fish, so I guess even though I eat them, that I would be one of those anglers who practices safe tourney transports?

No I found that on the internet, it is a study that was done in Florida. Yes you do practice good tourney transports, if everyone did it would mean the fishing would be better.

There are studies and published papers that show low voltage electrical current in the water, lowers mortality of transported hatchery fish for stocking. One day maybe they'll implement something like this for livewells.

there were two studis conducted here in CT about tournament mortality. Conducted by UCONN fisheries student Gordon Edwards and professor Rob Neumann. I have them both in PDF form, but knowhere to put them. If anyone has a site where I could post them and then like to it everyone could print them out. It would be beneficial for everyone to read....especially tourney anglers. The studies were conducted on Mansfield Hollow and Gardner lakes and put the weigh in fish in large cages and back in the water to determine post-tournament mortality.

Results varied, but were typically about 8% of tourney fish died...and that is just 72 hours. Overall tournament mortality "was approximately 2.4-8.4% of total annual mortality, 1.0-3.2% of the population size, and 2.0-20.8% of annual fishing mortality."

I've had informal communication with the DEP on this.

They should have some info. to share with us in the future. (At least not until after this holiday weekend.)

I seldom post here but here is my two cents anyway. I agree completely that tournaments do much more harm to a fishery than the few individuals that occasionally keep a limit of bass. I myself kept ONE bass last year, which is currently at the taxidermist, and took my share of criticism from the members here. However when I visited Beach pond the day after a CTF event and found the launch littered with dead bass the response was mostly excuses about malfunctioning equipment. All season long the fish are continuously harassed by Iaconelli wannabes while bouncing around in one livewell after another. Anyone that is really concerned about the future of bass fishing in CT should take another look at reducing the number of scheduled tournaments.

Hang tight guys, I am getting together a bunch of the bass management reports...will post as soon as I get them together.

I dont know about the whole mortality rates at tournaments, but one thing is for sure, If you keep a fish it is defintely going to die .

Im sure most people who fish tournaments would do whatever is necessary to keep the fish alive and healthy for release. The problem seems to be lack of education in keeping the fish safe and how to release them. Maybe the dep should hand out pamphlets or other info on how to do this effectively? Or possibly ban people who dont take the necessary steps to protect this fish, etc.?

FFA,

You're right about the fact the fish will die. I think the point of pointing out tournament and catch and release mortality was to let people know they also have an impact evne if they think they don't. Some of the same people criticizing the keeping of bass are responsible for the death of 'larger' bass as well.

If you want to ensure the fish won't die, don't fish for them.

Martin,

I believe that 6 bass died that night as one small boat had many problems including a total failure of its livewell. A few other bass died from being deep hooked, etc. We all regret that it happened, but nobody can forsee mechanical problems.

Candlewood gets HAMMERED by tournies wekk after week by tournies from CT, NY and NJ, yet it cotinues to thrive. I bet there were over 100 tournies on Candlewood this year. I agree that there should be a maximum number of tournies per lake per year. Maine does this and their lakes are fantastic.

Dusty, I'm not sure that Amos is a good representative of an "average lake" as far as big fish goes since it has been a Bass Management Lake for a number of years and has a tremendous forage base. Also, a 15.5" bass is a far cry from a 4 pound bass and the electrofishing is done after dark when many fish move shallow.

I'd love to have the DEP comment on the number of 20" or greater bass they estimate in Gardner, Hayward, Moodus, Amos, and other small to mid sized lakes and ponds.

My basic premise is that a 4 or 5 pound bass (that may grow into a 6,7, or 8 pound bass) is far more valuable in the lake than it is on the dinner table.

Thanks to all who have raised valid points. I am eager to see what the DEP response will be.

Huskybass

Not every tournament fisherman has as big of role in mortality as some or most. I think if tournament anglers were showed how to take proper care the rates would go down immensely. I fished in 20+ tournaments and I did not have one fish die on me. There was one tournament that I fished out of my dad’s boat in the dead of summer and the live well pumps died, my partner and I were lucky to find out they were not working and thought fast enough to use a one gallon milk jug to keep on putting fresh water in. We were able to keep almost 20 pounds of bass alive for about 6.5 hours. And after the weigh-in they swam away just a strong as anybodies else’s. The sad thing was at least 25% of the field had at least one dead fish. If there was only a way to teach people the rights and wrong of keeping fish alive in the wells.

Well in 2003, 12 fish over 30 cm were collected in 1 hour in Gardner. You'd need to see age length keys or actual catch data, and the amount of shoreline covered so you could extrapolate

Mycept,

Well said, I understand what you were trying to say and I agree with you that it is a problem.

I was,nt picking on or busting anybodies b-lls ,It was nothing personal it would bother me if any body kept those bass! He has every right to take them. As far as salt water fish are concerned ,I think what Mitch said hit it .The fish in the ocean have the whole ocean to live in our lakes are tiny compaired to the L I Sound! I can even see keeping crappies or perch maybe crappie fisherman would be pissed if they saw how many crappies we kept this past weekend. I think it has to do with being passionate about your sport.

That’s it 100% I think no matter what you keep there will be some one that gets upset because that is the species that they like to fish for and no one wants anything to happen to there fish.

Wow, I just spent 15 minutes reading through this and learned alot. Exuse me for being simple-minded but what I got out of this was that tournaments waste alot more fish then a few people keeping some for the table.

I am friends with alot of you, Husky, Simone, Mitch, etc. and always follow you guys on how you did in various tournaments so I am in know way critisizing tourney guys, but certain people should really lay-off people keeping a few fish after reading about the tourney mortalities.

Also I truely wish they would limit the amount of tournies on Cwood. I live on the lake and watch teams pull up to my dock and pull out a 4 pounder and bring it over to the launch to be weighed. No way in hell does that fish make it back to my end of the lake where I could enjoy catching it, plus it was probably on a bed. My biggest bass ever on Cwood was caught off my dock, a 5 1/2 pound smallie. Small point but it ticks me off.

Limiting the amount of tournies is a must in my opinion. If anything keep it to CT. clubs, but we are seeing more tournies than ever and that can't be helping the water's eco system nor the population if we are loosing 5-8% of the bass caught.

Did I like seeing the bass on the table like that, not really because I C&R bass and trout but it was his choice and from his posts he is an outdoorsman that knows the rules and regs. and doesn't abuse them.

I don't think the DEP can legally discriminate against out-of-state clubs in granting tournament permits either. I think they certainly COULD impose a limit on the number of tournies held per year.

I think the majority of tournament guys do not properly handle their catch. I take every extra precauation to care for my catch during the summer, and I lose very few fish. People think stopping at the gas station and buying 10 pounds of cubed ice is sufficient during a summertime tourney. It is not. You need about 50 pounds of block ice to keep the water at the appropriate temperature all day long. Rejuvendae additive also helps immensely. The recirculate pumps should also run continuosly.

Not picking on you at all Keith G - but I strongly feel that bass fishing can be better in just about every public lake we have. Even the DEP studies show that many lakes have a surplus forage base - which translates into room for more predator species.

Sorry again Keith G. ( Honestly, I'm not picking on you ) but I am going to quote you again from a later post.

"What is the usual weigh in limit for number of fish in tournaments?? You can't drop the creel limit too low or you'll be weighing in 2 or 3 fish. Remember, fish in the live well count towards a limit whether you plan on throwing them back or not"

I'm very glad you mention this because it's a commonly held belief that lowering the creel limits will impact tourney fishing.

I don't believe that "tourney creel limits" should have anything at all to do with "standard creel limits" - The DEP can and does issue waivers to tourneys to allow 12" bass to be weighed in on bass managements lakes - so there is no reason they couldn't use the same waiver system to allow 5 bass limits in 100% C&R tourneys.

All we need is the tourney paperwork filled out.

WOW I didn't see that there were 5 pages to read - I'll have to catch up later.

I see Huskybass already said what I said.

Lots of great info and opinions. From what I see, every lakes bass population can be in a different place - too many variables in conditions, forage base, recruitment rates, fishing pressure, fishing mortality and of course harvest rates -- to have just one creel limit for an entire state and expect it do work the same in each body of water .

Would a 2 fish limit work if every angler that kept a limit, decided to fish there next year ? NO.

Would a 10 fish limit make any difference in a lake where no one keeps any ? NO

Tourney pressure on Candlewood has no negative impacts on recruitment there - but is that true of all lakes? I doubt it.

The current creel limits were set long ago and in need of review.

We need more "Lake Specific" management to expect better fisheries. To do that, we need a hell of a lot more fisheries biologists. That takes $$$ - and YES the money is there, but unfortunately it gets burried in the "general fund" and the DEP has to literally fight for it's own survival - and you can forget about expanding their presence.

I bet a dollar that they have our best biologists schlepping trout from the stocking trucks for 10 weeks a year because they are understaffed :rolleyes:

I think this creel limit discussion is very important and I think we as fishermen, need to make more noise in Hartford to get our moneys worth. Support the DEP - Don't demand more from them - demand more of them

Wow has this thread evolved.
I still want the creel limit to change and a limit of one bass over 4lbs for the year.

If not too many people are keeping bass as some have stated. Then there should be no problem changing the limit.

Am I against keeping some bass for the table. No... But you should practice selective harvest.
That is keep a few of the smaller bass and return the larger.
I watched a fishing show last year that had as their guest The Director Of Fisheries for the State of Texas. He highly reccomended Selective Harvest.

Are there too many tournaments? I think the DEP is a better judge then me on that.

I agree what jighead said on the tournament limit for bass. But again that is for the DEP to decide.

No offense taken Jighead

This has been a very civilized and educational discussion and I am enjoying it lke others.

With the popularity of catch and release I feel bass fishing will only improve. However large fish need more oxygen and are more vulnerable to getting sick then their younger medium sized counterparts. This leaves them very open to fishkills when water warms or mortalities when handled poorly during tournies. Catch and release will improve quality, but it is wishful thinking that throwing back all 4-5lb fish means they will keep growing. Smaller bodies of water will only be able to hold a certain number of decent sized fish due to oxygen requirements and forage.

There will be lakes were little improvement can be expected - but there are others with a much greater upside.

Be careful. The CLA is not necessarily the friend of the recreational -- or tournament -- fisherman or boater. Jon Pski might be able to offer some more insight on the CLA.

I realize limiting tournaments is one theme running through this thread. However, you have to be careful about who does the limiting. You put that kind of power in the wrong hands (such as the CLA) and you don't know what you're going to get. Limiting fishermen's access is a dangerous thing in our small state, in my opinion.

From what I know, the CLA's interest is really with homeowners, not fishermen or the fish.

To start, I don't want to see anyone get booted. What I do see that is a little distubing is Rebel got bashed pretty well for taking a legal limit of legal fish. Criticized enough that Mitch found it necessary to delete posts and close the thread that started this thread.

I recall a thread earlier this summer when a member took a trout outside the slot limits out of a lake under the premis that it was deep hooked and going to die anyway and, although correctly chastised, did not get a quarter of the grief Rebel got.

One thing is clear to me. We are all on the same side here. We all want quality fisheries in this state. I, being uneducated in fishery management, will have to trust the DEP to decide how to do that. Any good debate between people that know what they are talking about is a good thing. If the DEP changes creel limits based on research or information they have I will trust that it is the correct thing.

If we continue to criticize or get personal with someone because they made a legal decision we don't agree with, that causes dissension and divides us. There are people and organizations like PETA that would love to see us fighting among ourselves so that could take advantage of that. If they had thier way there would be not catch and release, fish on the table or CTF.

I think the ultimate goal on this site is to share ideas, knowledge, and brag a little about what we've done. I think we should save the fighting and bashing for when someone wants to take this great hobby/sport away from us.

To those that do know what you are talking about. You have educated more in two nights about fishery management than I learned during the rest of my life. Keep up the good work.

Mycept,
You made the comment about low voltage current in the water during transport, Question I have is what would it need to be? Would a 9 volt or couple of them together do the trick for a small livewell? A 6 volt lantern battery? If the study shows that it helps I'm all for rigging up something that could attach to the underside of my live well hatch and running metal rods down to the water on each side. Heck I might even be able to invent something I could mass sell and turn some coin at it as well as help prevent mortality loss at tourneys.

I've learned alot for this thread and even though there were ones out there that bashed me, some of the more technical aspects and facts here have helped me see some things that I never knew. I abide by all the laws and regs when out there fishing, I try and preserve the fisheries, I'm a smoker and I put my butts out and pocket them while fishing, I had a comment made to me when someone saw me emptying my pockets of butts at a launch that "Now there's a real sportsman". Again I think it's like someone else said in an earlier post, everyone has their own fish that they feel strongly about, some are trout, others bass, still others yet panfish. I'm sure if I posted some of the pics of the catfish I used to bring in down south I would have caught flack about them from someone, no hard feelings taken. I hope the people I know that didn't like the pics don't harbour any resentment to me and will still treat me the same. I agree we need to protect our fisheries, and we need to preserve our wildlife and outdoors as well. But it's from all diffent angles not just one. I agree DEP is doing a good job with the limited resources they have I.E. funding, like BDF said we should turn our energy into a partition or something to go to the governer to provide more funding for our natural resources, not attacking each other over bass, trout, etc, etc. Lets take the money out of the politicians pockets and put it to use for the good of the people and the natural resources.

Bass Rebel,

I'm leaving today for the holidays and wont' be back until the end of the weekend. I'll pull up the papers that I have regarding the work. Alot of this work is/was done by Boyd Kynard at the USGS lab in Turner Falls, Mass. Some of you might be aware of it. They actively use it when they do work on shortnose sturgeon.

Great let me know when you get back Mycept and have a good holiday!!

I believe they should cut down on the amount of tournies on C-wood also .But I believe the problem in the summer is the recreation boats. You only have 2 state owned boat launches on that lake that hold about 100 vehichles and trailers apiece so that approx. 200 out of town boats on the lake, out of what- maybe 3-5000 boats on that lake.The overcrowding doe'nt only come from the tournament boats the problem is also with the recreational users. Just think if everyone that lives on or close to a lake thought like one of the people who posts on this site we are all going to be in trouble.All the lakes will be closed and turned into Heritage lakes for resident usage only.

I think there are too many tourneys in this state Period IMHO. I only get out to fish during the weekends due to high work load during the week, and just about every time I went fishing there was a tourney on the lake I was on, either one I was in myself or someone else having one. I think I stated myself that one of the problems with fishing is recreational boats, not just on C-wood but all lakes in CT, for such a small state we do have a lot of people that do enjoy getting out on the water, either fishing or recreational. I'm sure from what I've seen recreational boating affects the spawn as well, I've seen people skiing/Jet skiing so close to shore they might as well be on the land, which #1 is ILLEGAL, #2 I'm sure upsets the nests during spawn. Like I've said before there are many aspects to look at when managing a lake, DEP has a tough job to say the least.

1st off Cajun what do you mean by " Just think if everyone that lives on or close to a lake thought like one of the people who posts on the site we are all going to be in big trouble" .

What is that? I have a recreational boat and a fishing boat. Living on the lake costs alot more than off the lake so I will never feel guily about having a "recreational" boat. I use it more as a fishing boat anyway. We live in a community with 14 boat owners and boating is a huge part of living on the lake because boating is great! Are there to many boats on the lake? YES! Is there always a Recreation vs.Fishing boat thing? YES! But being both I just laugh at the accusations from each side. I hear it from my neighbors about lures being buried in there mooring covers and line around there outdrives. I hear it from people on the site about speeding recreation boats and running shallow along fish beds.

I have always said that there should be a huge fee at the launch for out of staters and less tournies, for the sake of the lake quality. I have lived on the lake for over 18 years and have used it for over 30 and have seen the increase from pleasure boating and fishing tournies. You just can't stop the population increase in the area so you will have more useage. It just needs to be regulated more.

I am on my boat every weekend with friends and fish it Tuesdays and it is just a wonderful place to be but these stereotypes of pleasure boats and bass boats is to much! The only stereo type I see is out of staters that don't need to take a boating course(mainly NY REGISTRATIONS) are the ones that have had near misses with me as far as speeding or just not obeying the laws.

Who knows the lake is for sale and hopefully the towns will buy!

As Mitch mentioned- Be careful what you wish for especially regarding the CLA. The CLA does a great job with trying to preserve and protect Candlewood Lake. They also get a bit overzealous with perceptions. The perception of many waterfront owners is that their lake receives way too much fishing tournaments. I wont deny that the lake gets a ton of fishing pressure yet from my veiw, it has not impacted the fishing quality. The perception is that the two state ramps allow too many boats on the water. The reality is there are somewhere aroound 5400 vessels on the water and shores of Candlewood Lake this year that are owned by the residents. In a survey done a couple years ago, the CLA found that fishing tournaments were in the top three complaints of lakeside residents. The perception is that every bass boat on the water is involved in a tournament. We know the reality is different. Though these lake associations can be beneficial to the overall health of a lake, if given too much ammunition from fishermen, this information will be taken to their local legislative leaders who will in turn create a Bill in Hartford. Does anyone really want more government interference in their lives? I know I don't. When matters as this reach a political level, veiws, and facts tend to get distorted. And not in the sportsmen favor neither.

When it comes to creel limits how about a seasonal limit. Maybe 2 fish a day over 16" from Dec 31 to March 15?
Special exemptions for tournament? PHOOEY! I'm so tired of jumping through political hoops now and to think of another form that would need to be filled out is ridiculous from my veiwpoint. The current permit system was originally put into place to try and get a picture of how many tournaments were occuring with the added benefit of free data. It then progressed to limiting parking space to now a full blow regulatory quagmire. To this day I really can't understand why these restrictions are in place. If ten guys want to get together for a day of fishing and compare weights, that constitues a tournament and must be permitted. If a group of ten guys want to get together and go skiing for the day and time each other on a makeshift slalom course that is fine. What's the difference? They are both "organized events"
Anyhow, I'll end my ramblings on tournament fishing with this last statement. Be careful what you wish for. Any attempt to further restrict or curtail fishing tournaments could be a very slippery slope.

Carry on.

Great Post Pski. I would be in favor of the 2 bass limit you proposed.

Huskybass

ok guys...i have the papers on tournament mortality for you. Two are from Connecticut and were conducted on Mansfield hollow and Gardner by a UCONN student.
They are in PDF format and can be found here at these links....they are large files so be prepared for a little wait if not hooked up to a high speed connection....have fun!!!

CT Tourney

Factors relating to mortality

Minnesota Tourneys

If you start limiting the number of legal tourneys (on C-Wood or in general around the state), then there will just be more "illegal" tourneys. The DEP can't be everywhere at once on a weekend to regulate. Since I've been seriously bass fishing in this state since 1999, I've probably averaged doing between 10-15 club and opens a year. In all that time, I've been checked for my licesene twice. Once out on the water, and once prior to launch. And I can't ever remember seeing DEP officers out there off the top of my head. There really isn't anything stopping a small club from meeting up out on an island or just mooring together to weigh-in. The problem is there just isn't enough water in the state for the amount of tournaments, therefore every little puddle, pond and lake usually has a tournament on it every weekend from May-Oct. There is too much private water as well. If Waramaug were open, you'd take some (not much, but some) pressure of C-Wood.

Plus, even if they successfully lobby to stop Tourneys on C-Wood, that just means crazy added pressure on every other lake (especially Lilly and Zoar).

Dusty- The pages wouldn't display.

Pski- For the record we have 14 boat owners and another 25 residents in our community and they don't complain at all about the bass boats. When line or a lure is stuck on there boat they say something but who wouldn't. So as far as I see there are not alot of gripes against bass boats.

As I said as long as they continue to build more houses, communities and condos on the lake they will be more traffic, but you can't kill the homeowner for moving on the lake and having a boat. There just has to be more regulations as far as building and preservation.

You're absolutly right in that not everyone is complaining. But, I have heard myself from residents and attendance at CLA meetings that bass tournamnts are one of the big gripes. This came straight from the CLA newsletter.

No doubt traffic is an issue on Candlewood along with many other lakes. I live near Highland lake which is 444 surface acres. The lake is densley populated and most every home has at least one boat moored. The state launch can hold 44 rigs. On a nice Sunday afternoon the place is absolutly nutty. Yet I would not go anywhere near new or additional regulations to try and restrict recreation.

As has been mentioned here several times, we live in a high density population state where many people have disposable income to buy their toys. Yet, there are just a limited amount of resoources to play on. There will always be some level of user conflict. The water skiers dont like the pleasure craft wakes, the fishermen don't like the jet skies, and on and on.

One trend on Candlewood that has the CLA concerned now is the number of BIG boats on the lake. Those cruiser type boats in excess of 22 feet. The concern is twofold. Those boats have large displacement hulls and tend to be driven at "maximum plow" throwing monster wakes. This is a contributer to shoreline erosion. The second issue with these big boats are that most have a head on them. Where are they to discharge their waste?

Retaining your catch, and tournament mortality MAY have an impact on SOMEA waters but there are also many other issues of concern for sportsmen that should be looked at also. All those boats moored around your favorite lake, how do they refuel? Most are done on the water using five gallon cans. The amount of raw gas that gets dumped in each year accidently is probably pretty large. Hundreds or thousands of auto bilge pumps kicking on over the season releasing lord knows what from the nasty bilge areas. How about antiquated septic system dumping literally tons of nitrogen and phosphorous into the water each year?

Many, many issues that are best left to the scientist'. Good debate going though.

ok try this link and attempt to get the files...they are labled on the page.

tourney files

PSKI- I can't agree more about the size problem on the lake. And you want to talk about people that can't handle what they have? I watch them dock at Echo Bay Marina and it is commical. Our docks are near them. Most of the big boats don't leave the slip over there but the ones that do put off huge wakes and it is a concern.

You have mentioned a few other concers which are all legit and it boils down to over population and regulation.

I am still in favor of limitation as far as boat size, ramp restrictions or higher launch fees for revenue and less tournies. The lake is an awesome resource and anything that can be regulated should. I can't see how making a size restriction and limiting some tournies should be that hard.

anyone want to step up and help me do this. my goal is to atleast cut the tourneys in half on c-wood. if interested PM me. see ya'll

A good place to start would be for your bass club not to hold any on C Wood next year. :rolleyes:

Good Stuff Pski -

On the tourney exemptions - it's nothing more that a line that already exists on the current tourney applications when held on "Bass Management Lakes"

It currently reads: Are you requesting an exemption from the Special Bass Management Regulations - with a "YES" or "NO" check box.

They then send you "permission slip" of sorts, along with the approved application paperwork and each boater needs to carry a copy. They only say no during warm water months to my knowledge (which would be in the best interest of the fish anyway)

The extra effort is minimal for those applying for permits - but it might put a damper on non-sanctioned events.

One thing is for sure in all of this - bass fishing sure is a hot topic round these parts.

Yeah Chris, Can't wait for that. I just sent you a PM.

I just got off the phone with "The Man" and he told me he'd do everything in his power to help me cut the tournys to atleast half. it will be realy tough to do better than that, but I'll be happy with 50 tournys a year out there. a hell oF alot better than 100+ a year. and I told him about the illegal tournys. he gave me a # to call if I see anything funny on the islands and such. I will not stop until this is done. and thats a promise.

Candlewood would be great if only people who live on the lake could fish there. That would be so sweet, making the biggest lake in the state private. The fishing would be awesome...but I guess the down side would be that I wouldn't be "allowed" to fish there, well, at least the fishing will the great for the others. I love giving up my favorite "pass time" to make that same "pass time" better for others.
'Tis the season of giving...I guess

Good job Chris!

csimone - I'll be looking forward to fishing all of your tournaments this coming season. I'm sure when the dates are posted, you'll likely get some good crowds to show up

We are deviating from the subject but, what is "tag and release"?

The first step to eliminating access to the lake, is to reduce access. I just think jamming up permits is a hint of what else could come. Let's say tournys are elliminated but the bassboats are still coming anyway, what do you think the CLA will want to do next?

Plus if we really wanted what's truly best for the fish, we wouldn't own any tackle

What happened to my original post?
I didn't start this thread to bash tournament fishing. I saw something I didn't like. And would like the rules changed. Now I say something and I'm ignored like a plague.
Start your own thread.

You're right, sorry 'bout that

It means that these problems usually start out like this debate over the use of Candlewood and snowball into a bigger problem!I don't understand how someone who is in a bass club is on here saying he is going to tie up as many permits as he can for c-wood.If all the other lake residents did the same thing his club would only be fishing c-wood.Do lake residents have more rights to use the lake?I don't think they do.I also understand that the residents have a legitimate gripe when they find hooks in their boat covers or seats or interiors of the boats!This is going to come to a head eventually and one side is going to lose, and it will probably be the out of town residents because the average people can't afford to have politicians in their back pockets!

Like you did in the CTF on C-wood in early this past summer!

Sorry about this whole thing getting started jimfish but one thing led to another and this is what popped up. But a lot of good came out of this. We all got good ideas and some real bad ones.
What would be the use of tagging fish? 99% of fishermen have no idea how to tag a fish which leads to infections and infections equal death. So if everyone tags 5-10 fish a day 75 % of them get infected it would mean much more dead fish than at a “normal” tournament.

Where is it written that a tournament creel has to have 5 or 6 fish. With all the concerned Bass Fisherman here maybe a lead by example approach would work. What's wrong with a voluntary 3 fish to the weigh in. With the amount of Club Fisherman here maybe they could bring that back to the clubs. It might help the DEP step up and take notice.

Sorry Jimfish, my apologies in advance.

Going to Maine in the morning won't see a computer til Sunday night.

OK, I'm holding on to my A$$, fire away.

and by the way, if this was such a bad idea, why did I get a bunch of PMs and e-mails agreeing with me and wanting to help?

Thank God

come on now, theres no need to be rude chris.
what i wanna know is, why are some people so upset about cutting down the tournies on candlewood?

Because then it opens up the lake to people that like to eat the bass....

Sorry couldn't resist....

To be quite honest . If they never held another tourney on C Wood wouldn't affect me in the least.
What get's me if the hipocricy of what your trying to do. Also your targeting a single group.
Yet I hear nothing mentioned about limiting the amount of home owner/pleasure boater usage on the lake of boat size or horse power restrictions. Let's face it all these contribute to this problem. Who hasn't seen that 35' Cigarette boat hauling a** all over the lake? Can you honestly tell me that size boats belongs on a public lake of that size? But yet you insist on singling out a certain group to further your own selfish needs. You state your doing this in the name of making a better fishery. Yet CWood is the most pressured lake in the state and has been for over twenty years now and still is as good today as it was then. Maybe even better? What you mean by a better fishery is to have the lake to your self. You moved near the lake you didn't buy the lake. It's actions like yours that will hurt all sportsman in the end including yourselves.

He's talking about limiting tournaments, not bass boats or fisherman. :rolleyes:

Tournaments are tough on the fish and he is saying that they may need a little less pressure at times like during the hot months. To say Candlewood has been pressured for 20 years and been ok is a bit shortsighted as there are now more fisherman, bass anglers in particular, then there was 20 years ago.

thank you keith. I was starting to think my computer was writing in some other language.

My whole problem is the colaberation with the CLA, who by the way have no interest in how good the fishery is, they just want less people using the lake and that's the bottom line. It's a start of something that can go wrong for all fishermen. Let the DEP determine what's too much, not an association that clearly has other motives in mind. That's as clear as I can put it. I'm not trying to piss people off, I'm just trying to bring another veiw of where this can go.
Does anyone out there understand my point?

You got hijacked by tournament terrorists!
If it makes you feel any better Jim I can't ignore a man who outfishes my entire season almost every day he goes out. Besides, this discussion will be short lived. Bass Rebel wants to eat all the fish in Cwood. (sorry Rebel, I couldn't resist, just a joke). Once Blue Fox hears dinners on, it will be a dead lake and you will have evidence to make your point with!

Its not the cutting down on the number of tournaments for me its the way you are saying it. I can just imagine the way the people that go to the CLA meetings feel about the commoners that are breathing their air in around the lake. I don't believe the DEP is going to bow to the CLA and give those people most of the permits.All the tournies and fisherman that go to the lake also contribute to the economy of the towns that surround the lake.Alot of the fisherman on this site don't seem to be into the tournament scene ,so thats why you got some of the responses you did.By limiting the tournaments on the lake is'nt going to cut down on the number of fisherman on the lake.Besides ,what will stop all the clubs from having a no weighin torunament like you suggested. The pressure is still on the fish and they are still being caught, No matter how you slice it the lake will still be overcrowded.

I'm not going to get suckered into a back and fourth battle. My grandfather taught me never argue with a f**l. Because the people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Bottom line all you care about is your own selfish need. If you cared one bit about the fish being over pressured you would stop fishing that lake yourself and set the example or atleast do it on the principal. But no, Your not the problem right? It's always someone else's fault. Right? By the way I can read and understand what you think your trying to say. One just has to know how to read between the lines to get to the real truth. Hypocrite!!!! There I said it.
Happy Thanksgiving

Csimone,

Your comments are pretty ironic considering when I asked who would be interested in a weekday Candlewood tournament next spring you replied:

"any day, any time.I'm in".

So tournaments on Candlewood are fine IF you want to fish them?

Jimfish,

Sorry this thread took a wrong turn, if I can help you at all in terms of getting less quality bass harvested, please let me know.

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving.

glad I stired things up. bad news travels faster than good news. more people will hear about this that way. and draw more attention. as far as being a hypocrite, well, who cares what you think. certanly not me. I said I wont be fishing any tourneys and thats that. all the name calling you do, just shows you were not raised rite. and jim im sorry for hijacking your post. i'll start my own on the subject.

BDF61,

You've obviously seen how much Blue can eat....dang he'll have me fishing 24x7 to keep that boy happy in food!! Csimone, watch out I might have to fish with Jeffery Domler, and he's not interested in the fish.....LOL

Have a Great Thanksgiving Everyone.

Jim - you got hijacked - too bad - it's an important post.

Husky,

Don't get me wrong your a great guy, but nothing at all was said about Chris and Cajun harvesting 50 Crappie out of N. Farms, can't believe that doesn't have an impact on the size/population there, and to compare apples to apples, it's the same as me keeping what I did. I caught them in 45-1 hr time frame so there must be a decent amount of them where I fished, so if anything the impact would be the same.

Jimfish,

You seem like a great guy and from all your posts are a great angler and get out there and fish a lot. Even though you take precautions I'm sure when you catch the monsters I've seen you post, and the amount you fish I can almost believe that from all the fish you caught all year atleast 6 of them died down the road from being caught, what's the difference between that and me keeping a few? The only difference I can see is atleast mine didn't/won't go to waste, not picking on you or anything, just trying to see things from all angles and prospectives.

Bass Rebel,

I never said anything about anyone keeping fish of any species. I am just in favor of a lower creel limit on bass, especially the ones over 18". To me, bass over 3 pounds are far more valuable in the water than on a plate or in a freezer.

As far as crappie go, I catch about a dozen a year by accident and the all go back in the lake.

Huskybass

Husky,

Honestly in your opinion do you think a creel limit would help? Yes it would limit the number of bass someone could take in a day, but that would just mean they would take more over the season. 6 fish in one day or 6 fish over X days is still 6 fish. Most anglers out there including myself do practice C&R for the most part, and if they do harvest fish they do it sparingly. The ones that can/do have an effect on a lake system don't do it legally or follow a creel limit anyway, so setting a creel limit in that instance wouldn't help. IMHO the creel limit doesn't really matter, I'd follow the law and obey it, but like I said 6 fish is 6 fish. Question on the creel limit being lowered, lets say you fish all day, and you catch X number of fish, 3 of them would die due to the hook placement when caught, if you kept all 3 fish you'd be breaking the law, if you threw them back they would probably die, what do you do in a case like that? I guess someone stated it well before the only method to really make sure bass (or any fish) will be there in the future is to not fish entirely.

I forgot where I read it but I believe it was in some DEP literature that something like 50 - 60% of a lakes biomass dies of natural causes yearly. If that is true, and the fishing remains decent, I believe that it shows how strong and resilient nature, and a lakes ecosystem is.

Certaintly we have a much higher percentage of fishermen practicing catch & release now more than ever, and that's a good thing. Maybe, taking a few fish on occasion isn't as detrimental as it may seem. The DEP recently started to look at each lake as an independant ecosystem which is no doubt that best way to monitor and manage our resources. In some of our larger lakes, I think I would be hard pressed to believe that a couple of people over a season keeping their limit of bass or other gamefish could have a negative impact on the overall health of the fishery. Now, the same scenario on a small pond might be a whole different story. I guess what I'm saying is that the DEP needs to continue to look at our waters independently and create regulations to address that specific body of water.

I have a theory about Candlewood lake. It seems that over the last few years, the smallmouth population has been increasing at Candlewood. Is it possible that the mortality rate of Largemouth bass has hit a point high enough that the more elusive smallmouth bass is now filling a nich as the top predator in the lake?

Another thing that the DEP should be looking into is the effect of winter drawdowns and aquatic vegetation erradication on an overall health/ecosystem of a body of water. From a fishermans point of veiw, we seem to be noticing some shifts in fish habits and populations. Of course observations are a bit ancedotal at best. It does seem strange though that in some lakes that have had their weeds die off, it almost looks like the smallmouth populations are growing. Why does Candlewood have virtually no pickeral? Is it because of the winter drawdon eliminating suitable spawn habitat while at the same time creating more suitable areas for th smallmouth?

I've mentioned this before but it has appeared to me that during the ice fishing season is when I notice the highest rate of fish retention. If that is the case, how about a seasonal creel limit reduction? From Dec. 31 to March 15 of 2 bass with a slot limit of 16" to 22"? This would protect the larger predators while still allowing someone to keep a few smaller ones for the dinner plate.

Just a few ideas to chew on.

Jon,

I agree that harvest through the ice is the biggest threat to our poulations of quality bass, especially on the smaller bodies of water. Ice fisherman usually fish in groups and "6 per man" can add up pretty quickly.

I would fully support the idea you set forth and would be happy to work with you in having the DEP consider your recommendation. Please contact me if you would like any help in this regard.

And yes, I DO think a creel limit would help. I could have legally kept hundreds of bass this year if I wanted to, but I put them back so that my son, the guy down the street and I can have the thrill of maybe catching them again when they are bigger.

Huskybass

Jon well said!

Husky I'm all for what Jon and you are suggesting for a creel limit during those times, it would reduce the number of fish taken out of a lake, from what I can tell (and I'm new to this ice fishing thing) most ice fisherman keep what they catch. To me IMHO ice fishing is boring, how much fun can you have fighting a fish through a hole in the ice? I'd rather see them do a tail stand and jump around. I have to recant what I said in the past a creel limit during those months might make a positive impact. At the least it would make the ice fisherman have to go back out in the cold multiple days to catch the same amount of fish.

Bass Rebel
I've been keeping a record of all the 4lb+ bass that I've caught since 1994. And it is over 200. And out of all of them only 1 went belly up. So I took it home and ate it.
I'm not against taking home some bass for the table But I am against someone taking a picture of 6 nice bass with 2 over 4lbs on a chopping block and posting it on a fishing site so the whole state can look at it. (No pun intended) I found it very distasteful.And I'm not allowed to say anything bad about it.

BTW
I hope those bass you brought home to take a picture of went back to Lake X. Because it is not legal to transport fish from one lake and released in another.

1 that you know of went belly up, I'm sure there were more that died later on. And yes I did take them back to Lake X and release them, and they swam away just fine, will they die? Maybe, but I guess that doesn't matter I did release them. I will not post those pictures any more, if I do it will be holding one fish up at a time. I didn't know it would upset so many people, this IS a fishing site yes, and that should not be limited to only C&R fishermen/women. Heck I might not even post any pictures any more...people can bust my chops over me catching and keeping 6 legitimate fish but VERY few even said a peep about me getting my PB in CT but I guess that's the way it is.

I can see this is turning into a peeing contest.
You two gentlemen do not have a clue what I was trying to say. There is a picture in the photo gallery called Lake shhh that was also distasteful.
You two can post anything you like. It's your right. I don't care if they were the only bass you kept in your life. I still wouldn't like it.

This post is for a change in the creel limit to change. Let's keep with the topic.

I was thinking of deleteing this thread. But it has has more positive reply's then bad ones.

the dep has a pamphlet about their bass management lakes online, it basically has lists some of the ideas behind what they do.
http://www.dep.state.ct.us/burnatr/fishing/fishinfo/bassbroc.pdf

here is the bass managment plan.
http://www.dep.state.ct.us/burnatr/fishing/geninfo/bassplan.pdf

I think the DEP guys put a lot of time into making in the plans and look at anglers concern. I copied the links in from the end of the previous page:

ideas behind tropy lakes by DEP
http://www.dep.state.ct.us/burnatr/fishing/fishinfo/bassbroc.pdf

here is the dEP bass managment plan. This is a really good read as it talks about what goes behind the limits
http://www.dep.state.ct.us/burnatr/fishing/geninfo/bassplan.pdf


Is it just for conservation that the fish are released? .. or do people just not want to eat them with all the heatlh problems associated with them? Alot of the poor dont care, but how many of them are really reaching their limits anyway? Basically teh manageemtn plan above says that few anglers reach their creel limit anyway but they did show that 1% of people kept their limit in 87'. I do think that number will be more lower today due to Hg problems... ahh ... wasting time, its an interesting read though. Anyway, Ill just say i do support more limits but have no problem if people keep their limit of fish to eat as i have faith in the DEP guys to make a good decision on optimum yeild that represents the CT angler.

Chris, I've kept 6 fish the whole season, the 6 that started all this, but that doesn't matter if it was only 1 fish, seems 1 fish is 1 to many for some people.

Jim, I'm all for changing the creel limit for winter (Ice Fishing) months, my reasoning for this? Well if you change the creel limit to 2 or 3 fish a day, then people will just keep more fish per day and there won't make a difference. For example lets say I fished on Sat and I caught 5 fish currently and decided to keep them, if I then fished on Sunday they would all go back in. If the limit was changed to say 3 fish and I caught 3 on Sat, chances are if I fished Sunday and caught 2-3 fish I'd keep them too...so nothing would have changed. Myself, I usally only keep 4-6 fish an entire season, so a creel limit wouldn't hurt me in the least if it was 2-3 all year long I'd just get them spread out over the season. Now ice fishing is a different story, and this is just my view because I don't ice fish, so it would be different for people that don't fish during warmer months and only ice fish I'm sure. But if the creel is limited during those months then they would have to go out in the cold for more days to get more bass which would probablly not happen. Again a creel limit all year long lower then what it is I don't think would be effective on what your trying to accomplish. Do you know what the percentage is of people that C&R against those that LEGALLY keep is? Not sure myself, but I bet it's pretty high, meaning that the overall percentage of people keeping bass to eat legally is probablly relatively low and not a threat in the least to the fisheries. Those that go out and harvest above the limit, and also multiple times above the limit during the year can and do I'm sure affect the fisheries. That's why DEP has a creel limit in effect, they know what's best for the fisheries. Again I'm all for a creel limit in the winter months and would be happy to help out on getting that changed any way I can.

I posted a poll just for the heck of it to see what percentage of people do what as far as C&R vs Keeping is.

http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/15/t/000200.html

Look at this one too.

http://www.ctfisherman.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/15/t/000164.html

Ok so far 19 people have voted in the poll, judging by the votes tally there isn't a lot of fish being taken out of the fisheries.

Official DEP Statement

http://www.ctfisherman.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000368.html?

8 pounds of bass or 6 smaller fish for under8 pounds would be a nice rule (otherwise one trophy fish over 8 pounds with NO other fish)

The problem as I see it is three fold;1)micro managing every body of water by the DEP is out of the question.2)There are social issues involved which can not placed into neat little statistical niches.3)I believe the DEP has done enough surveys over the years to determine the overall effect of tournaments,sportfishing in general,ice fishing and fishing during the spawn(I personally will not site fish a bedding bass)I have to give the nod to the bioligists.Perhaps it is time for a mail in survey at seasons end for all license holders(or quantifying percentage),plenty of empirical data exists from other states but again the differing "social "issues come into play,apples and oranges so to speak,you can not compare fisherman in Texas to their counterparts here in CT.here there are lots of people who fish trout only,less pressure on other species not stocked on a regular basis.I do have one question,if it is recomended generally not to eat fish from the housatonic why is there even a limit on bass,even the one meal a month thing scares me,yikes.

DEP does "micro manage" many bodies of water...currently there are 29 lakes or ponds in CT that are individually managed for bass.

Very interesting post.

sics, I wonder who you realy are? why dont you save the Hate mail for the PMs. this is a creel limit topic not how much you love to hate Csimone topic. and its ok to hate me. realy. it doesnt bother me a bit.

Gentlemen, please, how did an innocent discussion on creel limits turn into a keyboard fist fight between two CTF board members.

Please take your disagreements outside.

lol.. nobody is arguing... im sorry guys

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A bass is just a pan fish and every one knows that pan fish are the most prolific breeders amoung fishes. What should be done is to keep more of the smaller bass to eat so the bigger bass will have less competition for food.

Dusty,my exact words were "....micro manage EVERY body of water" generalized creel limits are necessary elsewhere.

Wow what an interesting post...my 0.02 I love the creel limits...but They only have the ability to keep the honest person honest...

Another topic

THE CT-DEP should charge for tourney permits...

oh I just PO'D the Bass Fisherman..PSST I'm One too,

And if you do PLEASE make sure it enough to be able to hire enough staff to be able to go and check every liscence of everyone at the ramp.


And if it is a false permit,not a tourney going on ... be able to charge the individual with filing false paperwork intending to defraud..or something.

We have a common passion, fishing, no matter what its form. The DEP in this state is doing a fantastic job, be thankful.

This is a great post guys. I agree with a lot of what I'm hearing out there and I'm glad everyone is so inthused about maintaining the bass population here in CT along with everywhere else. My cousin and I have been bass fishing since we were 7 or 8 years old and I never remember keeping one. We always practice the C.P.R method ( catch, photo, release ). I honestly cant forsee any depleation in the bass population. Most Bass fishermen are sportsmen and most sportsmen are conservationist. Look at the response this thred has. I get pissed when I see people keeping bass and I used to say something, then I thought about those assh*les who harass you when your hunting and its almost the same. Thanks for this great websit guys and tight lines to all..........

Tiny bass = yummy plus you get rid of the stunted bass so the bass can get bigger. There are a lot of lakes that shoud have slot limits that don't (such as Norwich Pond).