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#1217549 - 06/01/10 04:36 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: Crazy Ivan]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: Crazy Ivan
I would say 25 years before we make any major changes from fossil fuels.


Craig - big changes are underway now, examples are everywhere. I think we agree its a TRANSITION that will take at least 25 years, but we need to increase the momentum of the clean energy transition.

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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#1217667 - 06/01/10 10:54 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
thevinman Offline

Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
Gasoline is not where the majority of Crude oil goes, despite what we often think.


Fail

"In the United States in 2007 about 70% of petroleum was used for transportation (e.g. gasoline, diesel, jet fuel), 24% by industry (e.g. production of plastics), 5% for residential and commercial uses, and 2% for electricity production."

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pecss_diagram.html

Then look at how the US stacks up on global consumption:

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/index.cfm

There are plenty of alternatives that need to be developed. swwind named a few and there are plenty more. There may not be one silver bullet, but we need to get our heads out of the sand. Petroleum is a technological dead end. It is not renewable, It is not infinite. It is not sustainable.

But it sure lines the pockets of big oil and they will do anything to convince us that we can stay on it for as long as possible. Oh no, wait. We trust big corporations do do what's in our best interest. Never mind what I just wrote. Go Exxon Mobil, Go Shell, Go BP! We love you. You will always take care of us. May we have some more master, please?!

...They are akin to crack dealers and we are junkies. It is not in their interests to ween us off...ever.

That being said, there will always be a need for it in some capacity, but we need to change our behavior...our consumption. Yeah, that sucks. We like our big trucks and our big 250hp bass rockets. Yeah, it will cost us more money. We love cheap gas. Yeah it will hinder the economy. Change never comes easy. Pay now or pay later. Let China, India and Russia continue to be addicted to oil while we INNOVATE new technologies. Then when the spigot runs dry or oil gets too expensive, we will be the economic superpower controlling the "new" lifeblood of the global economy = Energy Technology.

.
.
.

Nahhh...just kidding! Just keep drilling. That's been working great so far!!!

-Vinny
My Profile

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." - Jedi Master Yoda

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#1217696 - 06/02/10 12:29 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: thevinman]
Trooper_Bri Offline

Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5845
Loc: Smellington
Agreed Lead Head!

I think some of you need to relax and have some respect for the person who started this thread. Go find some azzhole political finger pointing forum. From the sounds of it, some of you know the way already. No politics means no politics.

Our friend Larry is living this bullsh!t while you bicker about nothing that will make a difference. Have some respect and allow him to use it as a communication point to us instead of some retarded soapbox for your own selfish views.

Slow fishing is better than no fishing.
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#1217705 - 06/02/10 01:25 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: thevinman]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15914
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
No your wrong Colonial Sanders. Gasoline is 42% of all Crude oil refined. Therefore, it is in the minority. You lumped Diesel and Jet fuel with Gas, which is wrong.


Originally Posted By: thevinmanfxst
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
Gasoline is not where the majority of Crude oil goes, despite what we often think.


Fail

"In the United States in 2007 about 70% of petroleum was used for transportation (e.g. gasoline, diesel, jet fuel), 24% by industry (e.g. production of plastics), 5% for residential and commercial uses, and 2% for electricity production."



Edited by John from Madison CT (06/02/10 01:27 AM)

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#1217710 - 06/02/10 01:42 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: RedfishCT]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15914
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
I really wonder how many of the Anti-Petro crowd are going to ride their bikes to work tomorrow.....or better yet, give up their gas powered boats.

Todd: What about the pedestrian walking down the street. If he gets t-boned by a car, how is that different than the fisherman in the Gulf? Everything we do has risks/rewards. We all know we can get in a car and get killed or kill others, yet we are all willing to take that risk. Same goes for riding on airplanes, buses, etc etc....

If the risks outweight the rewards, then you should look into a switch, but very often it's not that clear.


All the technology you mention may have some opportunities and I know private industry is looking at ways to make them work because whoever invents a way to make they cost effective, they'll be very rich.

The problem is..............those who are the most anti-Petro are also the same people stonewalling alternative technology. Most Libs are against wind-farms in their area since the deem them unsightly and they'll chop up birds. Underwater tide technology seems to make sense but i already hear the uproar about people saying, NIMBY !! It goes without saying what they believe about Nuclear.

We definetly don't want to do as Brazil has with their Sugar Cane to Alcohol process. Brazil has clear cut millions of deep forest and rain forrests in order to have enough land to plant their cane.

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#1217714 - 06/02/10 02:20 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
thevinman Offline

Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
No your wrong Colonial Sanders. Gasoline is 42% of all Crude oil refined. Therefore, it is in the minority. You lumped Diesel and Jet fuel with Gas, which is wrong.


Not sure why you need to resort to name calling...but if you do, at least spell correctly. I'm not even sure I get it. Kentucky Fried Chicken? Have you tried the new Double Down? I heard it's unbelievable! But, I digress...

42% is still the largest "chunk" by usage segment by far, even if you exclude diesel and jet. So please don't split hairs.

Anyways, why exclude them? Burning diesel and jet fuel is demand driven. It goes to the same core behavioral issues. Change behavior. Use less. Break the cycle.

Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
I really wonder how many of the Anti-Petro crowd are going to ride their bikes to work tomorrow.....or better yet, give up their gas powered boats.


Did I mention I have the only geo-thermal heating and cooling system in my town...close to 30 grand. The equivalent of taking 1.5 cars off the road per year. In addition, my payback rivals any investment I would have made over the past 3 years with the same dollar for dollar.

Yes, I put my money were my mouth is. Have you?

Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT

Todd: What about the pedestrian walking down the street. If he gets t-boned by a car, how is that different than the fisherman in the Gulf?


You are correct. Just like the pedestrian...We all just got flucked, big time.

-Vinny
My Profile

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." - Jedi Master Yoda

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#1217717 - 06/02/10 02:47 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: thevinman]
Buck Offline

Member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 11203
The only short term solution is using natural gas for transportation. This takes the pressure off of drilling for oil and would for the most part eliminate the reliance on foreign oil and the transfer of wealth issues it brings us.
This transition has started. Many major cities like Los Angeles are already on natural gas powered vehicles. There are hardware companies that sell conversion kits to convert conventional cars right now (FSYS) and another company that has the distribution and filling station issues solved (CLNE). If you have natural gas piped into your home the equipment to convert your car and fill up at home from your gas utility exists right now.
Cars can run on propane or natural gas. Any hardware store has propane. The logistics of putting in a liquid natural gas pumping island in a present gas station are not difficult.
And the country has a known 200 year supply of natural gas already available to be drilled and piped and there is plenty more to be discovered in the West where the Feds own 50% of the land and don't allow much exploration.
Natural gas burns much cleaner than oil fuels.
So we:
--improve the environment with natural gas vehicles.
--reduce or eliminate foreign oil.
--stop the balance of payments drain that puts a huge burden on our deficits.
--no longer fund our enemies.
--energy purchases stay within our borders funding our economies.
--it exists now and can be combined with hybrids.
--it leaves the U.S. energy independant.
The cities are doing it now and the suburban areas should be next. It will be one of the major growth industries in the next 20 years. This is the only practical known technology with the resource available domestically that can offer a transition plan.
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#1217719 - 06/02/10 03:16 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: Buck]
thevinman Offline

Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
My brother-in-law has an Audi that he converted to use propane. The technology is out there for conversions and has been in use for years now...just in other countries where there was enough demand for it to be practical. Question is, how bad are we willing to let it get before we get in gear in this country? We need leadership, motivation and momentum, else it's going to be a very painful road ahead.

-Vinny
My Profile

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try." - Jedi Master Yoda

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#1217742 - 06/02/10 10:14 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: thevinman]
M.C. Niantic Offline

Member

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 2411
Oil and gas are usually found together, you still got to drill. Some of the wells I worked on were good natural gas producers. Using gas in cars is fine but not a solution. Vinman, by geo thermal do you mean heat pump?

"It's too big, let it go"
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#1217743 - 06/02/10 10:15 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
I know private industry is looking at ways to make them work because whoever invents a way to make they cost effective, they'll be very rich.


Lets hope so !

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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