I hope natural gas works out. My only concern about natural gas for vehicles is that I recall reading something about Exxon recently buying a company that had the patent for the process needed to cleanly refine natural gas for vehicles. If my memory is correct, it doesn't take too much of a leap to predict those friendly folks at Exxon will use their monopoly to jack up the price of natural gas at the pump once it becomes available nationally. Great for Exxon and people who own their stock, but terrible for the rest of America. Wondering why the Obama administration didn't prohibit that Exxon purchase?
Registered: 06/22/06
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Originally Posted By: Oceans
I hope natural gas works out. My only concern about natural gas for vehicles is that I recall reading something about Exxon recently buying a company that had the patent for the process needed to cleanly refine natural gas for vehicles. If my memory is correct, it doesn't take too much of a leap to predict those friendly folks at Exxon will use their monopoly to jack up the price of natural gas at the pump once it becomes available nationally. Great for Exxon and people who own their stock, but terrible for the rest of America. Wondering why the Obama administration didn't prohibit that Exxon purchase?
Do you mind if I ask a few questions?
Why is it that private enterprise shouldn't profit from their investment? If this company didn't have the resources to exploit the technology won't we benefit by Exxon bringing it to market? Is it the governments role to decide who is allowed to sell various technologies? Is profit bad? Who is John Gault?
"Our leaders are stupid, they are stupid people," "It's just very, very sad" - Donald Trump 2011
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Why is it that private enterprise shouldn't profit from their investment?
Your right - that is the way it needs to be . . . . but I recently agreed with JFM to have a Nuc plant in my town of Killingworth.
I know its not the way it could ever work . . . but in my heart . . . I would rather the US Navy run that plant than a publicly traded global energy conglomerate. I would feel safer.
Edited by swwind (06/04/1003:04 PM)
""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"
"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming
"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020
"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.
Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.
"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
Another day to hope and pray. It looks like the latest "top hat" is in place and they will start to close some of the relief valves today.
Fingers cross. - even a 50% capture rate would be a big step forward.
""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"
"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming
"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020
"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.
Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.
"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
There is actually competition within the natural gas industry for vehicle fuels including some smaller companies like Clean Energy (CLNE). Boone Pickens now has a big share, maybe controlling interest, but the company is small and Pickens is an out-of-the-box thinker. Clean Energy has contracts with many cities for their vehicle fleets to run on natural gas. They make the conversions to the vehicles, set up the filling centers and do other logistical requirements. They also have been getting contracts with servicers that have big vehicle fleets like utilities and telcom outfits. I believe Verizon is switching over to natural gas vehicles soon. There are a few equipment companies that make the conversion hardware. One is FSYS, can't remember the actual name, I go by ticker symbols mostly. They are just one of a few and not only are they profitable but they have a relatively low PE with good fundamentals. CLNE is not profitable since their positive cash flow is pushed back into the business for continual expansion which creates write-offs and losses but it is a going concern and other financial measureables show tremendous growth. Exxon did buy into the industry in the past year because they see the handwriting on the wall. Using oil for transportation is probably a low margin business because the consumer is always pushing on pricing and a lot of the price is in taxes. Look at the refiners who have to buy oil, like VLO, TSO, FTO, WNR and the others, their margins get crushed with high oil prices. The integrated oil companies like Exxon, that drill and produce product, run cracking processes and market end products are much more profitable because they control their business from exploration to end product. Oil used in products such as the plastic industry would likely have better margins due to the ability to functionally price the end product versus the cost-plus pricing of transportation fuels. There is a surplus of natural gas now and the price is way down. As oil goes up so does natural gas in a somewhat linear relationship but since we control our own destiny with natural gas produced in North America, and we have an abundance of it, using it for critical applications frees us from global demand for oil, oil pricing monopolies and the problems of political unrest. Plus we keep the dollars here instead of sending them to our enemies. To me, this is the only short term practical way to get out of our dependance on foreign oil. The positive impact to our Federal balance sheet would be enormous.
Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15914
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
Buck: The relationship of Crude to NG is not really linear. NG is far more volatile. Today we're dealing with NG in the $4.50/MBtu range. It wasn't that long ago that it was over $10/MBtu, but it hit $15+ in the height of the market.
NG historically was $2-$2.50/MBtu for several decades, but once controls came off the trading of NG, it went absolutely haywire.
Since NG is a "domestic" product, it is much more capable of these spikes. NG from around the world needs to come into the U.S. on a much larger scale in order to flatten those price spikes.
In order to do that, we need much more LNG infrastructure. The U.S. NG infrastructure is probably the biggest stumbling block to increased usage of NG as a transportation fuel and in other applications. But we all know how popular that is today.
Everyone wants it cheap....plentiful....and with no infringement on any part of their life. You can't have it all.....
Curious about something. If NG can be harvested in upstate New York and could be effectively/profitably sold in the American market at (hypothetically) $5 MBtu, but in Japan this winter they are willing to pay $8MBtu. Is it possible the US could become a net exporter of NG ?
Edited by swwind (06/04/1003:05 PM)
""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"
"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming
"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020
"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.
Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.
"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
I am on a BP conference call briefing with the international press right now - the top cap was landed on the BOP around 8pm last night. They have started to recover "some" oil and gas on the surface ship Enterprise. They are starting to very slowly close some of the relief valves, but it is a delicate balance of too much presure in the top cap vs. maximized recovery.
BP will not give recovery rates - but they will give a daily total every 24hrs. The first number is due tomorrow morning.
"Never done at this depth" . . . ."we will keep you informed" bla bla bla . . . .
By the end of next week, they hope to have yet another supplemental strategy. This one is starting to work and next options would be supplemental - They seem optimistic that within two weeks they could be near 90% recovery rates.
The Enterpise can handle about 15,000 barrels/day and they anticipate that would be the limiting factor if this works as expected. Obviously they can and will bring in more ships if recovey rates are as successful as they hope.
Edited by swwind (06/04/1005:10 PM)
""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"
"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming
"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020
"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.
Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.
"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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